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Author Topic: Earl & Walt  (Read 5065 times)

Ragnar

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Earl & Walt
« on: November 23, 2004, 08:01:10 AM »
Just saw an interesting set of numbers
Careet PBA average
Earl Anthony 216.3
WRW    218.07

Considering the state of the game then and now, can we conclude anything from just these numbers alone?  
Softer conditions then (?) + less technologically advanced equipment
vs. tougher (?) conditions today + a myriad of technological choices of equipment.

I'm tempted to say that I think the numbers suggest Earl was a better player, given that he had virtually no options with equipment and I'm not at all willing to concede that conditions were easier then (remember, lane dressing then was predominantly done with a sprayer bottle).  But I'm not sure about that.  Anyone want to chime in on this?
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Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.

Edited on 11/23/2004 5:05 PM
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)

 

Brickguy221

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2004, 04:05:30 PM »
quote:
Earl Campbell 216.3
 

Who's Earl Campbell??????........Campbell's Soup maybe???
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Ragnar

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2004, 04:08:56 PM »
quote:
quote:
Earl Campbell 216.3
 

Who's Earl Campbell??????........Campbell's Soup maybe???
--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income



Must have been a major rectal/cranial inversion just before leaving the office.  Maybe I've been paying too much attention to football lately?  Or looking at the can of "creamy mushroom soup at hand" on my desk?  

>>>>>ragnar, with red face, retires for the day>>>>>>>>>
--------------------
"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." Oscar Wilde
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)

a_ak57

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2004, 04:10:16 PM »
quote:
quote:
Earl Campbell 216.3
 

Who's Earl Campbell??????........Campbell's Soup maybe???
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income


Earl Campbell bowled?  I never knew....i guess he had to quit because his body couldn't take it.
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- Andy

a_ak57

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2004, 04:19:29 PM »
Something leads me to believe that if Earl (anthony that is, not campbell) had been a righty, this discussion wouldn't be happening.

*backs away before anyone can react*
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mumzie

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2004, 12:51:34 AM »
I have a hunch that if Earl had been a right-hander, he would have done just as well. There was a very short period of time that the lefties dominated the pba tour (due to lane maintenance issues, I believe...), but they were almost completely shut out after that - for quite a while. Often, Earl would be the only lefty in the top 8-10 of a tournament - when during the period of "lefty heaven", the top 16 would ALL be lefties.
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scotts33

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2004, 05:50:50 AM »
MOST TOP 5 FINISHES CAREER
144, Earl Anthony.

mumzie's point about the tour making a concerted effort to shut lefties out is exact and Earl still cashed consistenetly.

I'll take Earl a more precise bowler in any field.  I wish I had 1/2 his accuracy.  

Scott
Scott

Pinbuster

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2004, 06:46:21 AM »
Saying they shut out the lefties is probably inaccurate.

They tried to make both sides even.

When you had 16 lefties on tour and 15 would make the finals every week it was out of kilter.

Some of the average discrepancy could be shown in that Earl went out on tour and failed miserably. He went back home and worked on this game for several years and then went back out. His reentry on the tour coincided with the period when lefties dominated. I believe he was close to 30 by the time he started doing well.

Walter Ray went out young and stayed out. His first 4 or 5 years was a learning experience as well. I would imagine if you took his average since 1986 it would be 5 pins higher.

Earl was easily the best of the left handed bowlers at that time but when the shot favored the left he had only 15 to 20 bowlers and 10 guys that realistically had a chance to win.

When it favors the right hand side, Walter still has had to beat 100+ most of his career and 40+ guys that realistically had a chance to win.

scotts33

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2004, 07:03:44 AM »
The switch from lacquer to urethane lane finishes made the track unplayable for many righties about the time Earl came on the scene full time.  There has always been a concerted effort by the PBA after the wins pile up to slow down certain players.  Ala Billy Hardwick back in the 60's when righties like Billy dominated with his slow speed full roller.  

Scott
Scott

tenpinspro

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2004, 07:29:49 AM »
I remember always checking the Sun Times for the leader board by round and see Earl on many occasions being the only lefty in the top 24 and on top of that, he also led the field.  

I also heard when they tried to shut the lefties out but Earl still found a way to make the cut and cash.  One story was bouncing a basketball down the left side of the lanes with STP on it.  

Nothing taken away from Walter Ray as to me he has also shown his skill prevailing over righthanders.  He's made the show when the cranker shot is there, the tweener shot and when the fluff shot is there.  But imagine if he were the only righty in the top 24 while all the other 23 were lefties, now that would be an interesting feat.  I'm leaning a little towards Anthony but neither would stand up against a hit from Earl Campbell.

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scotts33

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2004, 09:39:18 AM »
One other thing I should add here is a relative sameness of both of these bowling greats.

I am not sure what WRW's axis tilt is but it has to be a very low number with his end over end roll.  I read an account by Larry Lichtstein that Anthony's tilt was around 5 deg.  So they both are very much the same in that dept.

Think about the early 70's when Earl was dominant.  Most lefties never went away from the pocket very lil head belly.  Now think about how Walter usually bowls and wins.  Very straight very lil head belly and looks very comfortable going towards pocket rather than away.  

Is there something to be learned here???

Scott
Scott

Phillip Marlowe

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2004, 01:26:01 PM »
People forget: Anthony won with rubber, plastic, urethane and, to some extent, reactive equipment (he bowled a few senior tournaments).  Anthony quit because he was bored and could make more with less work running his businesses and making appearances.  Had he continued bowling for say another 7 or 8 years, this topic would not be here.  

Anthony won from all sorts of angles, often as the only lefty in the top 24.  He had phenomenal hand-eye coordination and inhuman powers of concentration (he used to visualize an entire set before bowling it).  WRW is 1A and the finest righthander ever.  Anthony, well, he is the gold standard.
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charlest

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2004, 05:37:51 PM »
I must agree 100% with Mr. Marlowe.
Earl Anthony's nickname, The Doomsday Stroking Machine, was not a joke. That euphemism stuck true fear into the heart of every bowler ontoru at the time Earl bowled.

Today's oil patterns and funny ball reactions detract from Mr. William's ability and that is sad. With them, there may be a real correction and comparison between Walter Ray and Earl.

There is only one other bowler that can compare is sheer nerve, bowling ability, and ability under pressure and that name is Don Carter. As much as Dick Weber's name is revered, he was virtually a non-entity until Don Carter retired.

One last item to consider. Don Carter was the FIRST athlete, for  a considerable number of years, to be signed to a MILLION DOLLAR contract. Ebonite signed him. Not sure if it was the 50s or the 60s, but in today's dollars, that figure would be in the 100s of millions!

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

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Edited on 11/25/2004 6:44 AM
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JohnP

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2004, 09:27:56 PM »
And what Earl and Walter Ray have in common is ACCURACY.  --  JohnP

LuckyLefty

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Re: Earl & Walt
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2004, 09:37:52 PM »
I agree with Phillip Marlowe, a smart righty praising THE lefty.

Another thing both Earl and Walter had and have was tremendous loft control and a very long flat spot at the bottom of the release.  It just seemed like Earl just almost always got the release super clean and caught all of it!

As far as nerve and pressure handling though not mentioned in the same breath as these two.  There happens to be a lefty who once said, "no one knows this or remembers this but me, but in my 8 matches with Earl on TV I won 7!"
Guesses!?

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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