Author Topic: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated??? (Read 3047 times)

Ric Clint · « **on:** August 26, 2003, 09:21:28 AM »

Okay, a simple question:

If you're suppose to get early hook on the ball in Heavier Oil... why are they coming out with all these new Heavy Oil balls that actually get length and get through the heads clean?

Examples: Detonator, V2 Particle, V2 Strong, etc...

Me personally, I like Oil balls that get some length - even on Heavier Oil! I don't really care for the EARLY rolling paricles!

For me, the earlier hooking particle balls don't have any backend, and when you get the ball out a bit too wide, it doesn't recover well like the "lengthier" Heavier Oil balls do (These balls store up more energy).

So, if you are suppose to get early hook on Oilier conditions, then why are some of the new Oil balls designed to get LENGTH???

I love the Oil balls that get length because they store up mor energy for the backend!

Your oppinions???

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2003, 12:35:13 AM »

I feel if you are bowling on TRUE heavy oil, then there would really be no backend, thus the reason people want their heavy oil equipment to roll early.
When you are on a true heavy oil pattern you cannot possibly play for backend reaction. I have found a ball drilled to roll early, and sanded to 400 grit is usually the tool to get the job done.

channel surfer · « **Reply #2 on:** August 27, 2003, 12:45:05 AM »

Yeah, longer shots may not be good for late hooking balls that are for heavy oil.
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Cheez Wiz · « **Reply #3 on:** August 27, 2003, 02:01:49 AM »

The best thing to do is just adjust your release in order to maximise forward roll.

On truly heavy oil, you're going to leave nasty stuff if you have too much sideroll, especially if the backends are sloppy.

Who needs an oil ball when you can get the ball to roll by changing hand position?
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It's not Ez bein' Cheezy

mumzie · « **Reply #4 on:** August 27, 2003, 04:37:57 PM »

Ok. my 2 cents here.
this is somewhat counter-intuitive - so bear with me.

When you are bowling on heavy oil, the ball likes to use up its energy just getting through the oil, so you need a ball that is going to skid to save energy for whatever backend there is.

When you are bowling on drier (not desert conditions), you want something that is going to roll early, using up that energy equally over the length of the lane, so that it has the right amount of energy left when it hits the pins.

Now - notice I said ROLL - not HOOK!!!

Ric Clint · « **Reply #5 on:** August 27, 2003, 04:40:18 PM »

quote:
It is not hard to find a ball that will roll in heavy oil. The hard part is finding a ball that will skid long enough, then roll in heavy oil. That is why I don't like the super aggressive shells. They often start too early even on a flood. I would rather take a ball that is slightly less aggressive on the surface and try to roll it on heavy oil. The result is more likely to give me the skid roll pattern that I want.

I agree completely!

And where you say, "They often start too early even on a flood."... well, that is kind of my take on it also! But I just felt like I was wrong in my thinking because everybody says that you need really early roll on Heavy Oil, and I felt like people would think I was crazy for going "against the grain" if I said that a ball that starts up too early (even on a flood) was overated and possibly not neccessary!

Like if you take the HPH vs. the Detonator... well I'd take the Detonator over the HPH any day, because it gets more length and saves more for the backend even in Heavy Oil!

I think the companies are starting to see this also, because now they are starting to design their Heavier Oil balls to have length.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2003, 07:58:42 AM »

I believe the three comments on this thread by Bob Hanson, Mumzie, and Sawbones are some of the best comments on ball reaction I have ever read!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I didn't know Sawbones possessed this type of technical knowledge!!!
I think you've beenholding out on us with the constant philosophical questions.

T-GOD · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2003, 09:15:46 PM »

Bob, true "heavy oil" shots have tight heads. What you are explaining and why you want the ball to first skid, is because you're bowling on a longer oil pattern where the heads are hooking..!!

So, technically, that's not a heavy oil shot. If the ball won't skid, then the heads/fronts are hooking. This is not true heavy oil in my opinion. The heads/fronts should never hook.

But, that's the problem with bowling, the heads hook, then and now. =:^D

Cheez Wiz · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2003, 10:42:08 PM »

The main issue is heavy oil balls exist solely for the purpose of people who still want to continue to play their favourite line in heavier volumes of oil.

They simply refuse to change their hand position to put more forward roll on the ball. This is largely due to the fact that people envision the ball coming back at an extreme angle (which is often less than 10 degrees) having more power at the pocket. Under true heavy oil conditions, this is not the case. The lack of friction creates a situation where the transfer of energy from side rotation to forward momentum just doesn't occur within the confines of the lane.

What do we do? We increase the amount of friction of course. Dull balls, Particles, these all attempt to increase the tendency for this energy transfer.

Why not look at facilitating the energy transfer by not allowing the ball to use much energy changing from side roll to forward roll? If it is already near a forward rolling position, it doesn't take much energy to complete the skid, hook, roll cycle.
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It's not Ez bein' Cheezy

T-GOD · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2003, 12:21:04 AM »

Wiz, you say...

quote:
it doesn't take much energy to complete the skid, hook, roll cycle.

On heavy oil, how does the ball hook before it rolls..? Are you one of Mo Pinel's deciples..? =:^D

Edited on 8/29/2003 0:33 AM

Ric Clint · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2003, 02:58:29 AM »

Just to make sure we are talking about the same kind of Heavy Oil... I'm meaning fresh Heavy Oil in the heads and midlane and the pattern is LONG!!!

I'm NOT meaning Heavy Oil in the Heads and midlane, but shorter length with clean backends... I mean fresh Heavy Oil in the heads and midlane and the pattern is LONG!!!

Where nothing wants to hook at all.

Cheez Wiz · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2003, 07:20:11 AM »

I should have removed the skid and hook bit...the ball just rolls.
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It's not Ez bein' Cheezy

Author Topic: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated??? (Read 3047 times)

Ric Clint

Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

channel surfer

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

Cheez Wiz

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

mumzie

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

Ric Clint

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

LuckyLefty

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

T-GOD

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

Cheez Wiz

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

T-GOD

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

Ric Clint

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???

Cheez Wiz

Re: Early roll on Heavy Oil .... overated???