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Author Topic: Pin location  (Read 2971 times)

Neptune66

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Pin location
« on: June 02, 2010, 07:25:44 AM »
Most of my equipment has the pin located above or slightly to the right and above the ring finger, but a couple of balls have the pin in the middle, below the finger holes.  One ball has it above the fingers but in the middle between the two. And one oddball has it right beneath the ring finger.

I believe the ones with the pin above the fingers are intended to go longer (less early hook, more backend) and that the ones with the pin below the fingers are drilled for more of an early roll (less backend).

But what does it mean when the pin is off to the side?

Thanks in advance for any feedback/info.

 

sunsetlefty

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Re: Pin location
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2010, 04:01:10 PM »
Neptune66,

Your statement about pin high reaction versus pin low reaction is basically correct. Competent pro shops today drill based on a bowler's personal PAP. There's lots of information on this website on what it is and how to find it.

Pin location is one component of finding a suitable ball reaction for you. There's also coverstock choice, core design, MB placement, and much more.

Try and find a good pro shop in your area. If they don't drill based on your PAP, run away and find one that does...

PM me if you want to talk about it more.
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Neptune66

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Re: Pin location
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 11:39:27 PM »
Hi Surelefty,

I don''t know my PAP, but am pretty sure my main driller does. Then again, not all the balls in my arsenal were drilled by him. And I''m very happy with the job he does and don''t really want to start another round of ball adjusting, even though the pin location still interests me.

Am not really able to converse real well in the technical aspects of the coverstock, etc., but I do know how each ball reacts and why. I just never made a mental note about their pin positions while comparing them.  Usually compare them more on the basis of pearls versus solids versus particle balls, and polished vs dull, and also have both 15 and 16 lb equipment.

I was just curious ahow the pin location of the few pieces that are different from most of the other balls might impact the reaction in certain situations.



Edited on 6/2/2010 11:40 PM

dizzyfugu

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Re: Pin location
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2010, 02:16:28 AM »
quote:
Neptune66,
Pin location is one component of finding a suitable ball reaction for you. There's also coverstock choice, core design, MB placement, and much more.

Try and find a good pro shop in your area. If they don't drill based on your PAP, run away and find one that does...



+1 for both. It is very difficult to judge a reaction or utility just based on pin position. PAP is the most relevant reference, but you also have to check the whole "package" a ball offers, with its core (RG, differential, mass bias) and cover (material/aggressiveness, finish). The same layout on different balls can yield very different reactions and utilities.

You pin placement statement is basically correct, but keep in mind that there are many other factors involved which would e.g. prevent a "copy" of a ball or its reaction just by drilling it the same way!

A good ball driller is a great help here, someone who knows you game and arsenal.
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Miffy1980

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Re: Pin location
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2010, 03:35:20 AM »
since we are on this may i ask the following..

assuming all things being equal, ball specs, lane condition etc etc, how much difference are we going to see for pin just above and below fingers?


dizzyfugu

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Re: Pin location
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2010, 04:26:07 AM »
IMHO - not very much. Most effect on the ball's reaction comes from the surface prep, and' Id guess that you would only see a difference if you play the same ball with pin high and low side by side, or use a Throwbot.

It is IMO a "tendency" - if you WANT a long ball, go with a high pin. It helps with the overall reaction. But you will hardly make a matte low RG oiler into a "go-hard-and snap" ball, just by a high pin placement. It might delay its breakpoint a bit - you will have more "success" if you polish the ball, for instance.

Pin position is juts one of many factors, and it is not a decisive one.
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leftyinsnellville

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Re: Pin location
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2010, 04:43:40 AM »
quote:

But what does it mean when the pin is off to the side?



Generally, the "pin off to the side" means that the pin will be closer to your pap.  It's likely that the ball your talking about is a symmetrical ball (no mass bias marking) and it was drilled with the pin 3 3/8" away from your pap.  If the CG is also 3 3/8" away from your pap, this ball was laid out for maximum flare potential, i.e. the "strongest" possible drilling for that ball.

This is, of course, just a guess...

TWOHAND834

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Re: Pin location
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 07:10:21 AM »
quote:
since we are on this may i ask the following..

assuming all things being equal, ball specs, lane condition etc etc, how much difference are we going to see for pin just above and below fingers?




Enough of a difference to notice.  Here is the thing that some bowlers dont understand at times.  (Using the following as an example 5 inches from PAP is 5 inches regardless if the pin is up or down.  Some bowlers think that pin down or pin up makes a HUGE difference in ball reaction.  A pin below fingers, 5 inches from PAP will still get similar push through the heads but the little difference you see is on the backend.  For alot of people, the pin down will make the backend more controllable whereas the pin up will make the backend more violent.  The only time you will see a huge difference, is if the pin is center of grip as opposed to 2-3 inches above the fingers.  But, if you are talking about say above the bridge as opposed to below the bridge, on the ball, that distance is only a couple inches, maybe.  But, like I said, 5 inches is 5 inches.
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Pin location
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2010, 07:16:21 AM »
Very good point! Alternatively, to sum it up: pin up/down does not mean more or less total hook. It is more about the hook shape and where/when the ball goes through skid/hook/roll. Depending on the lane conditions, this can be quite beneficial.
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Miffy1980

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Re: Pin location
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2010, 03:19:41 AM »
thanks dizzy and 2hands, thats basically what i was looking for. coz i have ppl ard me talking abt pin up/pin down as if its costing their game. -.-

it just assures me that i should be working on my game

Xcessive_Evil

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Re: Pin location
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2010, 02:38:50 PM »
Dizzy and twohand are definitely correct.  

IMO, pin up/down is irrelevant on house shots.  9 times out of 10 the pattern is blended in a way that makes all balls react the same.  Now, on a sport shot/pba shot, those differences become much more visible.
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