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Author Topic: Elephant in the Room?  (Read 16560 times)

tloy

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Elephant in the Room?
« on: July 13, 2019, 08:33:25 AM »
With all the new rules, no weight holes, no cleaners ect….It seems to me that USBC is totally ignoring the real issue. Walled up house shots and no control over the shot put out by the proprietors. I know this has been discussed before but I am all for setting up different levels of leagues with easy to harder to sport shots.

I have been bowling for 20 + years and have seen the advancements in technology. I agree the equipment has advanced signifigantly but so has the ability of modern lane machines to put down a very precise shot. I bowled on a high $ league 3 years ago that was 50 ft and flat. I could not get a Hyper cell to wrinkle on this.

I think the USBC needs to concentrate on this area first. Opinions?
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northface28

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 09:08:32 AM »
Everyone bowls on “50 foot flat” in “their” league. It’s so exhausting listening to some of you.
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BowlingForDonuts

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 10:21:40 AM »
Wait so the elephant in the room is top end equipment isn't strong enough?  There are plenty of sport leagues in my area.  You just have to decide to live in civilization.  USBC needs BPAA lot more than vice versa so I wouldn't expect USBC to take much control of patterns any time soon (other than the classification scheme).  That battle was decided long ago.  If anything with elimination of 3 unit rule USBC is moving in opposite direction (wisely imo).  The oil pattern to lay down for open bowling and different leagues is actually a major business decision lanes have to make and much less a purity of bowling the sport decision.   People voting with their wallets generally decide the pattern.  As Juggs says bowling is a business first and everything else second.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 10:57:28 AM by BowlingForDonuts »
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ignitebowling

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 11:01:18 AM »
USBC cant dictate league conditions.  They tried but the proprietors have control over what conditions they want for their bowlers.

Most leagues are casual and don't want tougher conditions.  It's one day a week for fun. If enough bowlers want something the proprietor is likely going to do that for a league because it's about business.  Some proprietors have zero business sense,  and that's a different issue. 

Every league is different and making conditions tougher will lose more bowlers. It's a by league basis.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2019, 03:22:32 PM »
Bowlers as a whole can't regulate themselves because the vast majority of us are whining crybabies. The minority wants a challenge, the majority want to come.in, shoot their 650, feel good about something in their lives, and go home.

The business of bowling will never cater to the sport of bowling, instead catering to the game of bowling. There's no incentive for people to get better.
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avabob

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2019, 03:29:03 PM »
Most young bowlers tiday have the opportunity to play on more demanding conditions that require versatility.   For those who dont want to challenge themselves, it is likely that tougher conditions would not improve their game.   Nothing wrong with letting the majority of bowlers have fun and throw strikes. 
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tloy

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2019, 05:48:31 PM »
Northface, please don't misread what I am saying. I feel like the USBC is complaining that the scoring pace has gotten out of control with all of the 900's being shot. I feel like it is more the "adult Bumper Bowling" than the strength of the equipment. I have my share of the "strong" equipment but rarely use it. I have an original No Rules with less than 5 games on it...Just don't bowl on enough oil.  I have been using 1990-2000 era Columbia equip and Lane Masters with success. Looking for other opinions and see if this is an accurate statement?

I agree with Doom on the Whining bowlers... The league I regularly bowl in , in the fall had a malfunction and put down a slick patter. I was able to pull out a decent 600 series with a Urethane beast. The complaining was pretty bad ..

To me the "Elephant in The Room" is the lane conditions are too wide open. Yes, Maybe, no????

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jumba98

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2019, 06:26:21 PM »
I bowl on a senior travel league and most of the houses lay down a little heavier oil pattern to adjust for the majority of the guys slower ball speed. A few houses don't and the boys go nuts!! whining and crying, too much hook,its actually kinda funny. Out of the 8 houses though all are easy but maybe one, So yes too easy for sure.
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six pack

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2019, 07:26:50 AM »
I propose something no one has really mentioned. Maybe dumbing down the equipment and layouts might actually increase averages despite the lane conditions in league bowling. I feel most bowler's got sold on the "magic ball" and "magic layout" when all you really need is a consistent reacting ball with a cover matched to the volume of oil.
Instead of dragging 8-10 bowling balls to league with you trying to decide which one has the right programing drilled into it,bring 3 that will keep you in the pocket and adjust to work the pocket.
I respect and admire the guys who use one or two balls the whole season and average high all season compared to the high average guys who have to drag 8-10 balls with them to league. and the bowler's who make more with less were stroker's.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2019, 11:08:47 AM »
Quote from: six pack on July 14, 2019, 07:26:50 AM
I propose something no one has really mentioned. Maybe dumbing down the equipment and layouts might actually increase averages despite the lane conditions in league bowling. I feel most bowler's got sold on the "magic ball" and "magic layout" when all you really need is a consistent reacting ball with a cover matched to the volume of oil.
Instead of dragging 8-10 bowling balls to league with you trying to decide which one has the right programing drilled into it,bring 3 that will keep you in the pocket and adjust to work the pocket.
I respect and admire the guys who use one or two balls the whole season and average high all season compared to the high average guys who have to drag 8-10 balls with them to league. and the bowler's who make more with less were stroker's.

The guys that bring 8-10 to league aren't that good, unless you're bowling on a unknown sport shot that changes every week.
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Bowler19525

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2019, 01:23:02 PM »
Quote from: tloy on July 13, 2019, 08:33:25 AM
With all the new rules, no weight holes, no cleaners ect….It seems to me that USBC is totally ignoring the real issue. Walled up house shots and no control over the shot put out by the proprietors. I know this has been discussed before but I am all for setting up different levels of leagues with easy to harder to sport shots.

I have been bowling for 20 + years and have seen the advancements in technology. I agree the equipment has advanced signifigantly but so has the ability of modern lane machines to put down a very precise shot. I bowled on a high $ league 3 years ago that was 50 ft and flat. I could not get a Hyper cell to wrinkle on this.

I think the USBC needs to concentrate on this area first. Opinions?

The USBC suspended the 3 unit rule and no longer requires centers to submit lane certifications because they believe modern bowling equipment changes patterns regardless of how the fresh pattern starts.  In their mind, by regulating the equipment they are keeping the average pattern more playable for a longer period. 

Every lane has its own unique topography that changes continuously over time.  That being said, it makes sense for the USBC to consider a standardized national "USBC certified sanctioned house shot pattern" and a couple of other "USBC certified sanctioned" patterns for various types of sanctioned leagues.  The proprietors could still put out whatever they wish for open play and unsanctioned leagues.
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BowlingForDonuts

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2019, 01:41:03 PM »
Quote from: Bowler19525 on July 14, 2019, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: tloy on July 13, 2019, 08:33:25 AM
With all the new rules, no weight holes, no cleaners ect….It seems to me that USBC is totally ignoring the real issue. Walled up house shots and no control over the shot put out by the proprietors. I know this has been discussed before but I am all for setting up different levels of leagues with easy to harder to sport shots.

I have been bowling for 20 + years and have seen the advancements in technology. I agree the equipment has advanced signifigantly but so has the ability of modern lane machines to put down a very precise shot. I bowled on a high $ league 3 years ago that was 50 ft and flat. I could not get a Hyper cell to wrinkle on this.

I think the USBC needs to concentrate on this area first. Opinions?

The USBC suspended the 3 unit rule and no longer requires centers to submit lane certifications because they believe modern bowling equipment changes patterns regardless of how the fresh pattern starts.  In their mind, by regulating the equipment they are keeping the average pattern more playable for a longer period. 

Every lane has its own unique topography that changes continuously over time.  That being said, it makes sense for the USBC to consider a standardized national "USBC certified sanctioned house shot pattern" and a couple of other "USBC certified sanctioned" patterns for various types of sanctioned leagues.  The proprietors could still put out whatever they wish for open play and unsanctioned leagues.

On paper pretty reasonable (though good luck getting people to agree on one or even a few patterns).  BPAA could set up a USBF (federation, or association, etc) tomorrow though that didn't have that rule and exactly where is the USBC rules going to be in effect?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 06:48:51 PM by BowlingForDonuts »
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six pack

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2019, 07:01:03 PM »
Quote from: Impending Doom on July 14, 2019, 11:08:47 AM
Quote from: six pack on July 14, 2019, 07:26:50 AM
I propose something no one has really mentioned. Maybe dumbing down the equipment and layouts might actually increase averages despite the lane conditions in league bowling. I feel most bowler's got sold on the "magic ball" and "magic layout" when all you really need is a consistent reacting ball with a cover matched to the volume of oil.
Instead of dragging 8-10 bowling balls to league with you trying to decide which one has the right programing drilled into it,bring 3 that will keep you in the pocket and adjust to work the pocket.
I respect and admire the guys who use one or two balls the whole season and average high all season compared to the high average guys who have to drag 8-10 balls with them to league. and the bowler's who make more with less were stroker's.

The guys that bring 8-10 to league aren't that good, unless you're bowling on a unknown sport shot that changes every week.
.   
    BINGO!
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northface28

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2019, 07:20:20 PM »
Quote from: Impending Doom on July 14, 2019, 11:08:47 AM
Quote from: six pack on July 14, 2019, 07:26:50 AM
I propose something no one has really mentioned. Maybe dumbing down the equipment and layouts might actually increase averages despite the lane conditions in league bowling. I feel most bowler's got sold on the "magic ball" and "magic layout" when all you really need is a consistent reacting ball with a cover matched to the volume of oil.
Instead of dragging 8-10 bowling balls to league with you trying to decide which one has the right programing drilled into it,bring 3 that will keep you in the pocket and adjust to work the pocket.
I respect and admire the guys who use one or two balls the whole season and average high all season compared to the high average guys who have to drag 8-10 balls with them to league. and the bowler's who make more with less were stroker's.

The guys that bring 8-10 to league aren't that good, unless you're bowling on a unknown sport shot that changes every week.

Show me the donkey bringing 8-10 balls to league, for 3 games and I’d bet my life savings this dork averages 188.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Elephant in the Room?
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2019, 07:29:18 PM »
Quote from: northface28 on July 14, 2019, 07:20:20 PM
Quote from: Impending Doom on July 14, 2019, 11:08:47 AM
Quote from: six pack on July 14, 2019, 07:26:50 AM
I propose something no one has really mentioned. Maybe dumbing down the equipment and layouts might actually increase averages despite the lane conditions in league bowling. I feel most bowler's got sold on the "magic ball" and "magic layout" when all you really need is a consistent reacting ball with a cover matched to the volume of oil.
Instead of dragging 8-10 bowling balls to league with you trying to decide which one has the right programing drilled into it,bring 3 that will keep you in the pocket and adjust to work the pocket.
I respect and admire the guys who use one or two balls the whole season and average high all season compared to the high average guys who have to drag 8-10 balls with them to league. and the bowler's who make more with less were stroker's.

The guys that bring 8-10 to league aren't that good, unless you're bowling on a unknown sport shot that changes every week.

Show me the donkey bringing 8-10 balls to league, for 3 games and I’d bet my life savings this dork averages 188.

Come on man, you know dudes that show up with 2 3 ball rollers to league like the shot is tough. Same dudes are probably still wearing a Cobra or Scorpion.
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