With all the new rules, no weight holes, no cleaners ect….It seems to me that USBC is totally ignoring the real issue. Walled up house shots and no control over the shot put out by the proprietors. I know this has been discussed before but I am all for setting up different levels of leagues with easy to harder to sport shots.

I have been bowling for 20 + years and have seen the advancements in technology. I agree the equipment has advanced signifigantly but so has the ability of modern lane machines to put down a very precise shot. I bowled on a high $ league 3 years ago that was 50 ft and flat. I could not get a Hyper cell to wrinkle on this.

I think the USBC needs to concentrate on this area first. Opinions?

If you take away the oil you just kill the sport as such - you will end up with bowling's origins, 9 pin Kegeln, where balls do not need any traction or side rotation and are just played down the lane out of the open hand. This is IMHO not a solution.

One problem is IMHO that the performance gap between pro bowlers who compete on demanding sport shots (and top notch conditions) and average Joe on a THS is not perceivable. Ever stronger balls make those happy who do not have a sound release technique and just want to see the ball hook, the more, the better. If things become demanding, it is always someone else's fault (too much oil, too little oil, blah...), but never the player him/herself.

Another issue is scoring as such - here in Germany we currently have the discussion in the background that official scoring is supposed to be converted to the simplified Global Scoring System, in which each frame is counted separately (Strike = 30, Spare = 10+score, open = frame score, no extra score in the 10th frame). I do not see any benefit behind this, except that scores, esp. of mediocre and beginner bowlers, will become highly inflated, because the system dramatically favors single strikes (and consistent chains), and the gap to good players will become much smaller. I am not certain about the outcome, and do not like the idea. This move will certainly add appeal to occasional players and beginners, but it won't do justice to "better" players. Any similar development/discussion in the USA, too?

Quote from: ignitebowling on July 15, 2019, 10:14:18 PM

Quote from: bowling4burgers on July 15, 2019, 10:04:06 PM

Quote from: Good Times Good Times on July 15, 2019, 12:00:33 PM

I can throw it bad on anything!    

same

But at least give me enough oil to try 1st arrow with something that's not pancake plastic

It doesn't exist in most house conditions.


If wanting to lower scores for integrity and eliminate equipment take away the oil.  Shorter oil,  lower volume.  Scores will drop,  some will be smart enough to use weaker equipment and spare.  Most bowlers will be miserable,  most centers will save money on oil,  and bowling will be saved. Win,  win

Lowering volumes of oil doesn't automatically equate to lower scores. If you take some of the oil out of the middle, there will be a small handful of bowlers that won't be able miss by an arrow, complaining they are bowling on a "reverse block". The average league bowler won't notice, because they won't be accurate enough to tell the difference. The really good bowlers will have a more blended reaction.

The lane has to get to a point where at least some people use polished equipment again. If balls are so much stronger, than why does everyone use surface (talking about the PBA tour)? They have to, or the ball does tricks. More surface,and wiping the ball off to create fresh traction, means faster oil depletion.

Kegel has multiple times shown pattern graphs of the women compared to the men, and how each affect pattern breakdown. Higher rev rates break the pattern down faster and the lane gets more cliffed, period. The data is there. The women have a more gradual transition. They're using the same balls with just as much surface, if not more.

Great point on the reverse block statement. Some guys miss by more than a arrow and poke their eye out in the process and proclaim it’s a “reverse block”.

Sarcasm guys.  I stopped taking this stuff seriously awhile ago.  It's irrelevant.

Leagues are irrelevant for me.

Without leagues, there is no pool to get tournament bowlers. This is a huge misconception of leagues being irrelevant.

Quote from: tommygn on July 16, 2019, 07:54:21 AM

Quote from: ignitebowling on July 15, 2019, 10:14:18 PM

Quote from: bowling4burgers on July 15, 2019, 10:04:06 PM

Quote from: Good Times Good Times on July 15, 2019, 12:00:33 PM

I can throw it bad on anything!    

same

But at least give me enough oil to try 1st arrow with something that's not pancake plastic

It doesn't exist in most house conditions.


If wanting to lower scores for integrity and eliminate equipment take away the oil.  Shorter oil,  lower volume.  Scores will drop,  some will be smart enough to use weaker equipment and spare.  Most bowlers will be miserable,  most centers will save money on oil,  and bowling will be saved. Win,  win

Lowering volumes of oil doesn't automatically equate to lower scores. If you take some of the oil out of the middle, there will be a small handful of bowlers that won't be able miss by an arrow, complaining they are bowling on a "reverse block". The average league bowler won't notice, because they won't be accurate enough to tell the difference. The really good bowlers will have a more blended reaction.

The lane has to get to a point where at least some people use polished equipment again. If balls are so much stronger, than why does everyone use surface (talking about the PBA tour)? They have to, or the ball does tricks. More surface,and wiping the ball off to create fresh traction, means faster oil depletion.

Kegel has multiple times shown pattern graphs of the women compared to the men, and how each affect pattern breakdown. Higher rev rates break the pattern down faster and the lane gets more cliffed, period. The data is there. The women have a more gradual transition. They're using the same balls with just as much surface, if not more.

Great point on the reverse block statement. Some guys miss by more than a arrow and poke their eye out in the process and proclaim it’s a “reverse block”.

When I scream out "HOLD", it should hold, dang it!!

For competitive bowling, when did everyone start getting told what pattern you were on?  Why not go back to "it's a mystery" ... and have the players figure it out?

Bowling is WAY to dependent on equipment.  This layout, that layout, this surface, that surface, this shape, that shape ... it's enough to make your head explode.  You fall over all the bags everywhere you go and there is usually nowhere to sit.  The fact that people drag 6+ balls to a semi-competitive local tournament is absolutely stupid.

I think recreational bowlers would like the simplification of equipment.  It would be much more affordable ... HELLO !!!! - this is what made bowling so popular up until the 1980s.  The $220 ball (and you feel like you need 3 of them) and the $4 beer have done more to hurt the sport than help ..... just my .02.

They did that for USBCs and so many guys soaked their tampons and maxi-pads it was a legit red wedding.

everyone is over thinking this, the issue is pretty simple... bowling has had a marketing problem for a long time.  there simply needs to be more programing  on TV, that is the only way to rebrand bowling.  blaming conditions and equipment is short sighted,  golf has easy courses and hard courses and game improvement equipment too, there isn't an issue there.  because they have the right marketing and the right image. 

Quote from: tritonj on July 16, 2019, 05:05:52 PM

everyone is over thinking this, the issue is pretty simple... bowling has had a marketing problem for a long time.  there simply needs to be more programing  on TV, that is the only way to rebrand bowling.  blaming conditions and equipment is short sighted,  golf has easy courses and hard courses and game improvement equipment too, there isn't an issue there.  because they have the right marketing and the right image.

Market 36 week leagues anyway you want. The results will stay the same.

Best way is as 3, 12 week leagues that just happen to follow each other.  Oh and give $2 open bowling games the rest of the week as well as a few free games.  Seems to work on me (even if I do end up pre bowling most of the season).