Author Topic: Elephant in the Room? (Read 16570 times)

tloy · « **on:** July 13, 2019, 08:33:25 AM »

With all the new rules, no weight holes, no cleaners ectâ€¦.It seems to me that USBC is totally ignoring the real issue. Walled up house shots and no control over the shot put out by the proprietors. I know this has been discussed before but I am all for setting up different levels of leagues with easy to harder to sport shots.

I have been bowling for 20 + years and have seen the advancements in technology. I agree the equipment has advanced signifigantly but so has the ability of modern lane machines to put down a very precise shot. I bowled on a high $ league 3 years ago that was 50 ft and flat. I could not get a Hyper cell to wrinkle on this.

I think the USBC needs to concentrate on this area first. Opinions?

tommygn · « **Reply #46 on:** July 17, 2019, 07:50:01 AM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on July 16, 2019, 09:06:06 PM

Quote from: tritonj on July 16, 2019, 05:05:52 PM
everyone is over thinking this, the issue is pretty simple... bowling has had a marketing problem for a long time. there simply needs to be more programing on TV, that is the only way to rebrand bowling. blaming conditions and equipment is short sighted, golf has easy courses and hard courses and game improvement equipment too, there isn't an issue there. because they have the right marketing and the right image.

Market 36 week leagues anyway you want. The results will stay the same.

I agree. Perception is everything for a 36 week league.

We had a 10 week league with 2 weeks off in between. People regularly would bowl 4 times without a thought, 40 weeks, but would never consider a 36 week, straight through league. In a couple instances, some teams bowled 50 weeks in 1 "season".

tommygn · « **Reply #47 on:** July 17, 2019, 07:54:30 AM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on July 16, 2019, 02:26:54 PM

Quote from: tommygn on July 16, 2019, 09:39:21 AM
Quote from: ignitebowling on July 16, 2019, 08:57:25 AM
Sarcasm guys. I stopped taking this stuff seriously awhile ago. It's irrelevant.

Leagues are irrelevant for me.

Without leagues, there is no pool to get tournament bowlers. This is a huge misconception of leagues being irrelevant.

Such a large number of league bowlers don't bowl tournaments. Local association tournaments are almost non existent here. Leagues are rarely competitive and aren't "producing" tournament bowlers in my area. If there were the same number of tournaments available locally during the league season as in the summer I could skip joining league all together.

Still I enjoy my 20 week doubles league.

Every local tournament I have ever bowled, has about at best a 1/4 of the field you need to pay attention to. The others are the league bowlers that want to bowl a tournament for the first time, or just want an experience.

On rare occasions, is a field full of true tourney bowlers. Those cases, there is generally a very high payout and entry fee, but still are some guys just looking for experience.

BowlingForDonuts · « **Reply #48 on:** July 17, 2019, 10:35:39 AM »

Quote from: itsallaboutme on July 17, 2019, 06:29:32 AM

A business should give away or drastically discount their product because you patronize the establishment once a week at full price?

Do you work for half your wage on Thursdays and for free on Fridays?

Hey Bowlero made the offer not me. But is exactly the kind of sweetener to get someone who is not that into the social aspect of bowling to bowl leagues (for record not supposed to use during peak hours). If didn't get reduced cost games odds very good wouldn't bowl league at all and I love bowling (people another story). They are really pushing leagues now smartly imo. Lots of entertainment options out there have to compete against that don't require such a commitment including open bowling.

BeerLeague · « **Reply #49 on:** July 17, 2019, 11:08:13 AM »

Quote from: northface28 on July 16, 2019, 01:37:14 PM

Quote from: BeerLeague on July 16, 2019, 01:23:00 PM
For competitive bowling, when did everyone start getting told what pattern you were on? Why not go back to "it's a mystery" ... and have the players figure it out?

Bowling is WAY to dependent on equipment. This layout, that layout, this surface, that surface, this shape, that shape ... it's enough to make your head explode. You fall over all the bags everywhere you go and there is usually nowhere to sit. The fact that people drag 6+ balls to a semi-competitive local tournament is absolutely stupid.

I think recreational bowlers would like the simplification of equipment. It would be much more affordable ... HELLO !!!! - this is what made bowling so popular up until the 1980s. The $220 ball (and you feel like you need 3 of them) and the $4 beer have done more to hurt the sport than help ..... just my .02.

They did that for USBCs and so many guys soaked their tampons and maxi-pads it was a legit red wedding.

Did what?

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #50 on:** July 17, 2019, 11:45:02 AM »

Quote from: BowlingForDonuts on July 16, 2019, 11:00:20 PM

Quote from: ignitebowling on July 16, 2019, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: tritonj on July 16, 2019, 05:05:52 PM
everyone is over thinking this, the issue is pretty simple... bowling has had a marketing problem for a long time. there simply needs to be more programing on TV, that is the only way to rebrand bowling. blaming conditions and equipment is short sighted, golf has easy courses and hard courses and game improvement equipment too, there isn't an issue there. because they have the right marketing and the right image.

Market 36 week leagues anyway you want. The results will stay the same.

Best way is as 3, 12 week leagues that just happen to follow each other. Oh and give $2 open bowling games the rest of the week as well as a few free games. Seems to work on me (even if I do end up pre bowling most of the season).

I love to bowl. The center in which I bowl offers free open bowling [as many games as you want, whenever they have available lanes] all summer long in any of their three centers if you join a summer league. I have my free bowling pass and literally NEVER use it.

During the fall season, they offer $1.50 per game open bowling every Sunday morning from 9am-12noon. I rarely, if ever, do that either.

Cheap open bowling does not entice me at all. When I want to practice (which is rare), I simply do it when the desire hits me and pay whatever the price is when I go there.

My biggest issue with league bowling isn't the length of the season, it is the fact that most league bowlers are there for the socializing and take their sweet time bowling. They frolic around the center, are rarely ever ready to go when it is their turn, and are more worried about what to eat and drink then actual bowling. It should NOT take 3 hours to bowl three games. A couple of weeks ago on our 4-man summer league we were down 2 bowlers. So there were only 6 of us on the pair. It still took 3 HOURS to bowl. At one point a guy on the other team says "Hey everyone, take your time. I am going outside for a smoke". 10 minutes later he strolled back in and resumed. Heaven forbid you say anything...all you get back is "I will take my g-- d--- time! I pay good money to be here and I am not going to let anyone tell me when I should be taking my turn. F--- you!"

BowlingForDonuts · « **Reply #51 on:** July 17, 2019, 12:00:42 PM »

Quote from: Bowler19525 on July 17, 2019, 11:45:02 AM

Quote from: BowlingForDonuts on July 16, 2019, 11:00:20 PM
Quote from: ignitebowling on July 16, 2019, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: tritonj on July 16, 2019, 05:05:52 PM
everyone is over thinking this, the issue is pretty simple... bowling has had a marketing problem for a long time. there simply needs to be more programing on TV, that is the only way to rebrand bowling. blaming conditions and equipment is short sighted, golf has easy courses and hard courses and game improvement equipment too, there isn't an issue there. because they have the right marketing and the right image.

Market 36 week leagues anyway you want. The results will stay the same.

Best way is as 3, 12 week leagues that just happen to follow each other. Oh and give $2 open bowling games the rest of the week as well as a few free games. Seems to work on me (even if I do end up pre bowling most of the season).

I love to bowl. The center in which I bowl offers free open bowling [as many games as you want, whenever they have available lanes] all summer long in any of their three centers if you join a summer league. I have my free bowling pass and literally NEVER use it.

During the fall season, they offer $1.50 per game open bowling every Sunday morning from 9am-12noon. I rarely, if ever, do that either.

Cheap open bowling does not entice me at all. When I want to practice (which is rare), I simply do it when the desire hits me and pay whatever the price is when I go there.

My biggest issue with league bowling isn't the length of the season, it is the fact that most league bowlers are there for the socializing and take their sweet time bowling. They frolic around the center, are rarely ever ready to go when it is their turn, and are more worried about what to eat and drink then actual bowling. It should NOT take 3 hours to bowl three games. A couple of weeks ago on our 4-man summer league we were down 2 bowlers. So there were only 6 of us on the pair. It still took 3 HOURS to bowl. At one point a guy on the other team says "Hey everyone, take your time. I am going outside for a smoke". 10 minutes later he strolled back in and resumed. Heaven forbid you say anything...all you get back is "I will take my g-- d--- time! I pay good money to be here and I am not going to let anyone tell me when I should be taking my turn. F--- you!"

Best advertisement ever for doubles leagues.

Jesse James · « **Reply #52 on:** July 17, 2019, 12:22:39 PM »

I love to bowl. The center in which I bowl offers free open bowling [as many games as you want, whenever they have available lanes] all summer long in any of their three centers if you join a summer league. I have my free bowling pass and literally NEVER use it.

During the fall season, they offer $1.50 per game open bowling every Sunday morning from 9am-12noon. I rarely, if ever, do that either.

Cheap open bowling does not entice me at all. When I want to practice (which is rare), I simply do it when the desire hits me and pay whatever the price is when I go there.

My biggest issue with league bowling isn't the length of the season, it is the fact that most league bowlers are there for the socializing and take their sweet time bowling. They frolic around the center, are rarely ever ready to go when it is their turn, and are more worried about what to eat and drink then actual bowling. It should NOT take 3 hours to bowl three games. A couple of weeks ago on our 4-man summer league we were down 2 bowlers. So there were only 6 of us on the pair. It still took 3 HOURS to bowl. At one point a guy on the other team says "Hey everyone, take your time. I am going outside for a smoke". 10 minutes later he strolled back in and resumed. Heaven forbid you say anything...all you get back is "I will take my g-- d--- time! I pay good money to be here and I am not going to let anyone tell me when I should be taking my turn. F--- you!"
[/quote]

Ahhh! That is that summer league Riff Raff! and that's the nature of summer league! Been there and done that. I bowl in one summer league and I see it all the time!

That being said, I know how it's going to be so I don't get upset. In fact, I socialize right along with them LOL! For me, summer league is just for practice and fine tuning!

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #53 on:** July 17, 2019, 05:58:25 PM »

Unfortunately fall leagues are the same around here. I tolerate it because I love to bowl, but some nights are just way out of control.

Bowlaholic · « **Reply #54 on:** July 17, 2019, 06:01:31 PM »

Anyone who takes summer league seriously should think about going to the beach instead.
As previously stated summer league is for practicing and keeping your game fine tuned for the fall season.
However, life is to short, so don't forget to have fun with the people in the summer league while your doing it.
Fall league not so much!

MI 2 AZ · « **Reply #55 on:** July 17, 2019, 06:43:20 PM »

Quote from: BeerLeague on July 17, 2019, 11:08:13 AM

Quote from: northface28 on July 16, 2019, 01:37:14 PM
Quote from: BeerLeague on July 16, 2019, 01:23:00 PM
For competitive bowling, when did everyone start getting told what pattern you were on? Why not go back to "it's a mystery" ... and have the players figure it out?

Bowling is WAY to dependent on equipment. This layout, that layout, this surface, that surface, this shape, that shape ... it's enough to make your head explode. You fall over all the bags everywhere you go and there is usually nowhere to sit. The fact that people drag 6+ balls to a semi-competitive local tournament is absolutely stupid.

I think recreational bowlers would like the simplification of equipment. It would be much more affordable ... HELLO !!!! - this is what made bowling so popular up until the 1980s. The $220 ball (and you feel like you need 3 of them) and the $4 beer have done more to hurt the sport than help ..... just my .02.

They did that for USBCs and so many guys soaked their tampons and maxi-pads it was a legit red wedding.

Did what?

I think he is referring to when USCB did not disclose the Nationals patterns.

tritonj · « **Reply #56 on:** July 18, 2019, 03:13:33 PM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on July 16, 2019, 09:06:06 PM

Quote from: tritonj on July 16, 2019, 05:05:52 PM
everyone is over thinking this, the issue is pretty simple... bowling has had a marketing problem for a long time. there simply needs to be more programing on TV, that is the only way to rebrand bowling. blaming conditions and equipment is short sighted, golf has easy courses and hard courses and game improvement equipment too, there isn't an issue there. because they have the right marketing and the right image.

Market 36 week leagues anyway you want. The results will stay the same.

i'm not speaking directly to the 36 week league, but sure shorten the leagues that still doesn't fix the core issues of bowling. when i talk about marketing bowling i'm not talking about trying to fill a league. think about it for a second WWE is held in higher esteem than bowling as far as sports go and that is scripted and a show.

northface28 · « **Reply #57 on:** July 18, 2019, 04:09:37 PM »

Quote from: tritonj on July 18, 2019, 03:13:33 PM

Quote from: ignitebowling on July 16, 2019, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: tritonj on July 16, 2019, 05:05:52 PM
everyone is over thinking this, the issue is pretty simple... bowling has had a marketing problem for a long time. there simply needs to be more programing on TV, that is the only way to rebrand bowling. blaming conditions and equipment is short sighted, golf has easy courses and hard courses and game improvement equipment too, there isn't an issue there. because they have the right marketing and the right image.

Market 36 week leagues anyway you want. The results will stay the same.

i'm not speaking directly to the 36 week league, but sure shorten the leagues that still doesn't fix the core issues of bowling. when i talk about marketing bowling i'm not talking about trying to fill a league. think about it for a second WWE is held in higher esteem than bowling as far as sports go and that is scripted and a show.

People still watch wrasslin?

ignitebowling · « **Reply #58 on:** July 19, 2019, 12:54:46 PM »

Quote from: tritonj on July 18, 2019, 03:13:33 PM

Quote from: ignitebowling on July 16, 2019, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: tritonj on July 16, 2019, 05:05:52 PM
everyone is over thinking this, the issue is pretty simple... bowling has had a marketing problem for a long time. there simply needs to be more programing on TV, that is the only way to rebrand bowling. blaming conditions and equipment is short sighted, golf has easy courses and hard courses and game improvement equipment too, there isn't an issue there. because they have the right marketing and the right image.

Market 36 week leagues anyway you want. The results will stay the same.

i'm not speaking directly to the 36 week league, but sure shorten the leagues that still doesn't fix the core issues of bowling. when i talk about marketing bowling i'm not talking about trying to fill a league. think about it for a second WWE is held in higher esteem than bowling as far as sports go and that is scripted and a show.

Most of the #savebowling seems to be geared towards league. We keep hearing how USBC sanction numbers are down from previous decades. Bowling is too easy. Too much technology. Conditions are too easy. blah blah blah. Then we get the post about how JR Gold is proof bowling isn't dead. We need to keep these kids interested in bowling.

That trying to address a lot of different factors that requite different groups to work together. Guess what bowling isn't....groups working together and or transparency.

shakezilla9 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 19, 2019, 03:58:20 PM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on July 19, 2019, 12:54:46 PM

Most of the #savebowling seems to be geared towards league. We keep hearing how USBC sanction numbers are down from previous decades. Bowling is too easy. Too much technology. Conditions are too easy. blah blah blah. Then we get the post about how JR Gold is proof bowling isn't dead. We need to keep these kids interested in bowling.

That trying to address a lot of different factors that requite different groups to work together. Guess what bowling isn't....groups working together and or transparency.

Have league divisions been discussed? Like when I played youth club soccer, there was a Gold division, a Silver Elite division, a Silver division, and a Bronze division.

I would be wayyy more interested in bowling sanctioned leagues if I could bowl in the hardest division. Not necessarily in terms of how strong the competition is, but in terms of how difficult the lane conditions are. I wouldn't mind carrying a 160-170 average on Red Square.... Throwing 200 on a super hard shot is way more enjoyable for me than shooting 250 on a house shot.

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #60 on:** July 19, 2019, 06:53:36 PM »

Quote from: shakezilla9 on July 19, 2019, 03:58:20 PM

Have league divisions been discussed? Like when I played youth club soccer, there was a Gold division, a Silver Elite division, a Silver division, and a Bronze division.

I would be wayyy more interested in bowling sanctioned leagues if I could bowl in the hardest division. Not necessarily in terms of how strong the competition is, but in terms of how difficult the lane conditions are. I wouldn't mind carrying a 160-170 average on Red Square.... Throwing 200 on a super hard shot is way more enjoyable for me than shooting 250 on a house shot.

My center floated the idea of splitting leagues based on averages, and the idea was met with great resistance. Bowlers said it would prevent them from bowling with their friends, family, and other league bowlers they like to spend time with. So the bowling center dropped the idea. Now they are raising the handicap on several of the leagues to address complaints that the handicap isn't high enough and the better bowlers "always win". Of course the raising of the handicap is causing people to threaten to drop off the leagues because it favors the more recreational teams.

The funny thing is if you mention scratch leagues to the bowlers complaining about too much handicap, they refuse. So the same bowlers that rarely ever get handicap don't want to bowl scratch because they wouldn't get any handicap.

Author Topic: Elephant in the Room? (Read 16570 times)

tloy

Elephant in the Room?

tommygn

Re: Elephant in the Room?

tommygn

Re: Elephant in the Room?

BowlingForDonuts

Re: Elephant in the Room?

BeerLeague

Re: Elephant in the Room?

Bowler19525

Re: Elephant in the Room?

BowlingForDonuts

Re: Elephant in the Room?

Jesse James

Re: Elephant in the Room?

Bowler19525

Re: Elephant in the Room?

Bowlaholic

Re: Elephant in the Room?

MI 2 AZ

Re: Elephant in the Room?

tritonj

Re: Elephant in the Room?

northface28

Re: Elephant in the Room?

ignitebowling

Re: Elephant in the Room?

shakezilla9

Re: Elephant in the Room?

Bowler19525

Re: Elephant in the Room?