Author Topic: Engraved Logos (Read 6411 times)

RyboFlavin · « **on:** November 22, 2011, 05:46:05 AM »

With it being so easy to pretty drastically change the reaction of modern equipment by making minor surface modifications (going from 1000-2000-4000 grit, etc.), I've always wondered why the manufacturers place huge engraved logos right in the track area. How can this not affect the reaction when such minor surface changes do affect it? Anyway, just something I've been curious about.

Edited by RyboFlavin on 11/22/2011 at 2:46 PM

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 23, 2011, 05:11:54 PM »

One thing we noticed here is that flat spots tend to develop more on the engraved logos. Than on the areas without the logos.

Aloarjr810
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Click For My Grip

mainzer · « **Reply #17 on:** November 23, 2011, 07:05:00 PM »

Anyone that notices a change in ball motion or reaction over engraved areas is a far better bowler than I.

Regardless of the engravings, you still have to throw the ball consistently to throw strikes, that is all I would worry about.

MainzerPower

scotts33 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2011, 12:35:58 AM »

Exactly...how many have you thought or heard that chips and gouges in your track would effect ball motion/roll? Umpteen times old timers have heard this. How is this different than deep engravings?

JOE FALCO wrote on 11/23/2011 4:58 PM:I believe (only my opinion) that the engraving has little to no effect on the pin mix. Chips/nicks in the tract area (from what I've heard) have a bad reaction on the ball roll (have no idea why) .. if the chips do have an effect on ball roll then I would imagine that engraving in the tract area would alco effect the roll .. does anyone have experience to conclude that ball roll is effected by chips in the tract area?

Scott

aussiedave · « **Reply #19 on:** November 24, 2011, 06:55:23 AM »

Agree with the OP completely.

There is ample space on the other side of the ball (sorry lefties).

I have a Tropical Storm and upon examination, the big ole logo appears to be a pressure type stamp and the resin between the stamp lines actually protrudes up in a bubble type effect, creating a ripple type surface on the area occupied by the logo - right on the track path if you prefer a standard type pin up drilling config. Annoying.

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kidlost2000 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 24, 2011, 07:49:59 AM »

I guess it is sad that bowling balls haven't come far enough for bowlers to get past logos so they can increase their scores. And thus the true reason bowlers can't shoot scores.

Large divots, gashes, and belt marks I can understand because of the surface taken out of the ball and the obvious sounds it makes going down the lane. The ball sounds like a flat tire, but logos not so much. Very few bowling balls I have had, even with large logos, make a sound going down the lane. The ones that did still hooked a ton and struck.

Maybe bowlers that are having difficulties could start a petition to manufactures to fix the errors.

"1 of 1."

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 24, 2011, 08:03:40 AM »

In regards to what the OP asked "why the manufacturers place huge engraved logos right in the track area" the reason is simple. When they show bowling on tv, thats the side of the ball that faces the camera the most. It for advertizing.

Imho having the logo there is meaningless, its one of those things that if you look at it on a computer. Its going to say that the engraving affected some aspect of the balls reaction .0000000000000001% as to it not being there. Which means in the real world, nobody is going to be able to tell a difference.

(Just so everyone knows the number

.0000000000000001% is a made up number used as a example of some theoretical ball test computer result. Its not from the USBC, The Ball MFG.s or NASA and I never stated it was real.)

Aloarjr810
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Click For My Grip

Edited by Aloarjr810 on 11/25/2011 at 10:25 AM

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 24, 2011, 08:36:32 AM »

Back in the day one of the regional players here that was with Ebonite would have bowling balls with double logos on it. At the time he would have a Puma, Jaguar, Cougar and Panther and they had the large logos on both sides, where as the ones in your local shop would only have the one logo. As mentioned for tv purposes.

"1 of 1."

aussiedave · « **Reply #23 on:** November 24, 2011, 10:04:40 AM »

aloarjr810 said:-

Its going to say that the engraving affected some aspect of the balls reaction .0000000000000001% as to it not being there.

I ask, where did you get this figure from?

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Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 24, 2011, 11:03:46 AM »

aussiedave wrote on 11/24/2011 11:04 AM:
aloarjr810 said:-
Its going to say that the engraving affected some aspect of the balls reaction .0000000000000001% as to it not being there.

I ask, where did you get this figure from?
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Its just a bogus figure which Im sure most figured it was. I used it to show how in some computer simulation it would show some minor variation in the balls reaction.But which in actual use nobody could tell a difference in the balls reaction. (though I'm sure there's bowlers here that will say they can tell)

I should have figured someone would see that number and start yelling weres the proof assuming I was stating a some fact. Even though I never said it was a real figure.

Aloarjr810
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Click For My Grip

Edited by Aloarjr810 on 11/25/2011 at 10:36 AM

RyanRPS · « **Reply #25 on:** November 25, 2011, 09:48:13 AM »

Gota say, this made me LOL... not saying it is or isn't true, but how the heck do you measure "Pin Action" ?! Never mind be able to quantify it in such a way as to be able to say that one ball gets 21% more pin action than another?!

Personally I believe that rolling over the engravings has pretty much no effect on the ball motion.. I just lifted the closets ball to hand and counted the most lines of engraving the ball would roll over... was 22... each engraving line measures about 0.5mm... so in your entire track your going to be off the surface of the ball for about 11mm say... so about 1.5% of your track...

Locke wrote on 23/11/2011 2:52 PM:Interestingly enough, I spoke with a former ball tester for Ebonite and he said they found that the more engravings there were the more pin action you get. He said they actually got a result of about 21% more pin action from an extremely engraved ball to a unengraved ball.

Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member

www.seismicbowling.com

Edited by RyanRPS on 25/11/2011 at 10:49 AM

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #26 on:** November 28, 2011, 02:22:36 AM »

IMHO, engravings do not affect the ball reaction at all. Even if there is an influence, it will occur consistently, so the result is IMO negligible.

Anyway, I have had issues with the filled Brunswick-type engravings, on my Awesome Finish. The ball reacted horribly OOB, with a very inconsistent break point. Took some time to figure out that it actually were the HUGE engravings and their plastic filler material which protruded remarkably from the surface. This obviously made lane contact poor, and it seems that this had been one of the early quality issues at the Mexico plant. I shaved the excess stuff away and everything became much better. Never had this phenomenon with standard engravings, though.

DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

Locke · « **Reply #27 on:** November 28, 2011, 11:21:59 AM »

He actually explained it a little to me. He said they engraved a latitude and longitude pattern on the ball then used a throwing machine to throw consistently. They then used high speed cameras to capture the the speed and deflection angles of the pins and it was based on those measurements that they came to this conclusion.

RyanRPS wrote on 11/25/2011 10:48 AM:Gota say, this made me LOL... not saying it is or isn't true, but how the heck do you measure "Pin Action" ?! Never mind be able to quantify it in such a way as to be able to say that one ball gets 21% more pin action than another?!

Personally I believe that rolling over the engravings has pretty much no effect on the ball motion.. I just lifted the closets ball to hand and counted the most lines of engraving the ball would roll over... was 22... each engraving line measures about 0.5mm... so in your entire track your going to be off the surface of the ball for about 11mm say... so about 1.5% of your track...

Locke wrote on 23/11/2011 2:52 PM:Interestingly enough, I spoke with a former ball tester for Ebonite and he said they found that the more engravings there were the more pin action you get. He said they actually got a result of about 21% more pin action from an extremely engraved ball to a unengraved ball.

Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com

Edited by RyanRPS on 25/11/2011 at 10:49 AM

Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it

RonaldHickland · « **Reply #28 on:** November 28, 2011, 03:21:55 PM »

Logos and engravings used by Ebonite International are solely for aesthetic purposes. There have been no studies conducted on the effect of engraving on ball performance.

Ronald Hickland

Ball Design Engineering Manager

Ebonite International

Jesse James · « **Reply #29 on:** November 28, 2011, 03:31:47 PM »

Lol! This must be an interesting topic if you guys got the "Zenmaster" himself to respond!! Good job!

Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, but it still holds the universe together.

Some days you're the bug; some days you're the windshield.

RyanRPS · « **Reply #30 on:** November 28, 2011, 06:23:16 PM »

I'm not supprised after that 21% comment lol.... goes to show that 50% of all statistics are made up :-P

Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member

www.seismicbowling.com

Author Topic: Engraved Logos (Read 6411 times)

RyboFlavin

Engraved Logos

Aloarjr810

Re: Engraved Logos

mainzer

Re: Engraved Logos

scotts33

Re: Engraved Logos

aussiedave

Re: Engraved Logos

kidlost2000

Re: Engraved Logos

Aloarjr810

Re: Engraved Logos

kidlost2000

Re: Engraved Logos

aussiedave

Re: Engraved Logos

Aloarjr810

Re: Engraved Logos

RyanRPS

Re: Engraved Logos

dizzyfugu

Re: Engraved Logos

Locke

Re: Engraved Logos

RonaldHickland

Re: Engraved Logos

Jesse James

Re: Engraved Logos

RyanRPS

Re: Engraved Logos