BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Rileybowler on November 01, 2017, 02:29:39 PM
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Has anyone tried or have knowledge of the personal machines that remove oil from ball one is the Nuball and the other I think is the rejuvenator from innovative. Are they worth the investment and I would be interested if people have had problems with them and how long they have owned them. Thanks in advance.
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Made my own same processor as nuball and has worked flawless for 2+ years
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Curious to hear how much oil comes out of a ball as long as it is always properly cleaned immediately after a session and never put away dirty. I have too many balls myself to be able to put enough games on any one ball to properly test the theory.
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The Detox by Jayhawk is by far the most effective, but it's not practical for personal use, it's fairly expensive.
I've noticed a huge difference in oil absorption rate depending on the towel I use. A Shammy will suck all the oil off a ball while most other towels just smear it around. A ball will absorb some between coming back after your shot and when you get to it before the next one, but using a Shammy has been really good for me at preventing as much absorption as possible.
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The Detox by Jayhawk is by far the most effective, but it's not practical for personal use, it's fairly expensive.
I've noticed a huge difference in oil absorption rate depending on the towel I use. A Shammy will suck all the oil off a ball while most other towels just smear it around. A ball will absorb some between coming back after your shot and when you get to it before the next one, but using a Shammy has been really good for me at preventing as much absorption as possible.
I still believe the vast majority of oil that comes out of the vast majority of balls gets absorbed by the ball after bowling and not during. I agree though a good shammy is well worth it and also believe it never hurts to wipe a ball down during use. Back to the topic at hand though. Sorry.
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Curious to hear how much oil comes out of a ball as long as it is always properly cleaned immediately after a session and never put away dirty. I have too many balls myself to be able to put enough games on any one ball to properly test the theory.
I wipe between shots, and I clean my stuff religiously right after each session. I have a NuBall unit, and I've almost never been able to extract oil to the surface on any of my equipment. I have de-oiled friend's balls that are never cleaned and sometimes oil will ooz out for hours.
I'm a believer that if you clean well, not much will penetrate and stay trapped in the cover. Unless the newer coverstocks just don't give back using heat.
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I wipe between shots, and I clean my stuff religiously right after each session. I have a NuBall unit, and I've almost never been able to extract oil to the surface. I have de-oiled friend's balls that are never cleaned and sometimes oil will ooz out for hours.
I'm a believer that if you clean well, not much will penetrate and stay in the cover. Unless the newer coverstocks just don't give back using heat.
Pretty much. I have the occasional odd ball that just seems to sponge up oil even with wiping between shots and cleaning afterwards, but it's rare. Still really happy with the NuBall unit though.
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Curious to hear how much oil comes out of a ball as long as it is always properly cleaned immediately after a session and never put away dirty. I have too many balls myself to be able to put enough games on any one ball to properly test the theory.
I wipe between shots, and I clean my stuff religiously right after each session. I have a NuBall unit, and I've almost never been able to extract oil to the surface on any of my equipment. I have de-oiled friend's balls that are never cleaned and sometimes oil will ooz out for hours.
I'm a believer that if you clean well, not much will penetrate and stay trapped in the cover. Unless the newer coverstocks just don't give back using heat.
This is also my exact experience.
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The Detox by Jayhawk is by far the most effective, but it's not practical for personal use, it's fairly expensive.
I've noticed a huge difference in oil absorption rate depending on the towel I use. A Shammy will suck all the oil off a ball while most other towels just smear it around. A ball will absorb some between coming back after your shot and when you get to it before the next one, but using a Shammy has been really good for me at preventing as much absorption as possible.
Loved your video on the Detox and it does look so nice. Here is the poor man's version (below) which seems to be the same one use in this video. Again never done this myself so buyer beware but seems doable. Still say keeping your stuff clean religiously upfront means you can afford once in a blue moon to have the pro shop de-oil your ball but may well never need it.
https://www.amazon.com/HappyBuy-Ultrasonic-Commercial-Stainless-Solution/dp/B06XKF5F95/ref=sr_1_3
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I have the Innovative unit. I keep my stuff pretty clean so it takes a lot of bowling before oil starts coming out. When I do one of my friends balls that are not cleaned regularly a lot of oil comes out.
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Looks like Innovative no longer offers the unit anymore.
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Looks like Innovative no longer offers the unit anymore.
Their selling it under the Vertex label
http://www.vertexbowling.com/Personal-Bowling-Ball-Revivor-PerRevivor.htm (http://www.vertexbowling.com/Personal-Bowling-Ball-Revivor-PerRevivor.htm)
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The Detox by Jayhawk is by far the most effective, but it's not practical for personal use, it's fairly expensive.
I've noticed a huge difference in oil absorption rate depending on the towel I use. A Shammy will suck all the oil off a ball while most other towels just smear it around. A ball will absorb some between coming back after your shot and when you get to it before the next one, but using a Shammy has been really good for me at preventing as much absorption as possible.
Loved your video on the Detox and it does look so nice. Here is the poor man's version (below) which seems to be the same one use in this video. Again never done this myself so buyer beware but seems doable. Still say keeping your stuff clean religiously upfront means you can afford once in a blue moon to have the pro shop de-oil your ball but may well never need it.
https://www.amazon.com/HappyBuy-Ultrasonic-Commercial-Stainless-Solution/dp/B06XKF5F95/ref=sr_1_3
Wow, that thing seems noisy! But other than the noise, the ball is being heated only on one side(the side in the solution). Over time, the differences in thermal stress created from the uneven heating would probably be a serious issue.
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Well I suppose you could turn the ball occasionally during the process or maybe heat your water up front and don't use the built in heater. Probably a bad idea to even recommend it as I still think you are probably best off only going to our PSO for oil extraction and only maybe once a season as with proper maintenance you shouldn't need to go more often than that.
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I second the effectiveness of the Jayhawk Detox. It's faster than the Revivor or Rejuvenator, which do work well.
The Detox can immerse all the ball at once, but we usually put water up to the thumb hole (pointing upward). Most balls are finished in about 30 minutes, but some will go longer if they are quite bad. Years ago I remember us pulling oil out of a ball for 6 hours straight in the Revivor.
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I was told just buying a rejuvenator isn’t enough. You need to have a spinner to hit the ball with a pad to “open it up†some first. Then use the nuball. Then have to shine or dull based on the ball on the spinner again after.
Is this how ya’ll do it? Or simply just use the rejuvenator and then clean it with your normal cleaner after?
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Vertex recommends "opening" up the pores with a 500 grit pad if no oil is coming out. On my own equipment I usually only "de-oil" after many games and am going to re-surface so I take it down to 220 or 360 first.
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I was told just buying a rejuvenator isn’t enough. You need to have a spinner to hit the ball with a pad to “open it up†some first. Then use the nuball. Then have to shine or dull based on the ball on the spinner again after.
Is this how ya’ll do it? Or simply just use the rejuvenator and then clean it with your normal cleaner after?
I've heard this quite a few times and it doesn't pass the smell test.
Sure, if you are planning a resurface after a rejuvenator session, by all means sand away. But if you just want to remove the oil, it's not necessary.
The oil got into the ball without help and will come out just fine without sanding to "open it up".
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Vertex recommends "opening" up the pores with a 500 grit pad if no oil is coming out. On my own equipment I usually only "de-oil" after many games and am going to re-surface so I take it down to 220 or 360 first.
Of course Vertex recommends sanding a ball first, they sell ball spinners.
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I was told just buying a rejuvenator isn’t enough. You need to have a spinner to hit the ball with a pad to “open it up†some first. Then use the nuball. Then have to shine or dull based on the ball on the spinner again after.
Is this how ya’ll do it? Or simply just use the rejuvenator and then clean it with your normal cleaner after?
No, I have not found that you need to open the pores up before using an oil extractor. Polished balls suck up oil as fast as the same coverstock does when dull. If you use it on less oil, then it will absorb less soil, but it will still absorb it.
You don't really need a spinner to sand a ball but it does the job so much better and so much faster. A spinner is all but essential for polishing a ball.
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Of course Vertex recommends sanding a ball first, they sell ball spinners.
The sanding of a ball first has nothing to do with vertex selling spinners.
Sanding a ball first goes back to before rejuvenators appeared, when people first started trying to get oil out of a ball and the main method for oil removal was the dawn & Hot water soak method . Sanding the ball first made that method more efficient.
While it may not be totally necessary with today's rejuvenators, sanding of the ball to open up the pores would still make the process much more efficient.
By removing dirt and other grime from the lanes, ball lifts, belts etc. that have become impacted into the porous surface of the ball and which haven't been removed by just surface cleaning.
Plus given most have their ball refinished at the time of a de-oiling, the no reason not to do it.
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Of course Vertex recommends sanding a ball first, they sell ball spinners.
The sanding of a ball first has nothing to do with vertex selling spinners.
Sanding a ball first goes back to before rejuvenators appeared, when people first started trying to get oil out of a ball and the main method for oil removal was the dawn & Hot water soak method . Sanding the ball first made that method more efficient.
While it may not be totally necessary with today's rejuvenators, sanding of the ball to open up the pores would still make the process much more efficient.
By removing dirt and other grime from the lanes, ball lifts, belts etc. that have become impacted into the porous surface of the ball and which haven't been removed by just surface cleaning.
Plus given most have their ball refinished at the time of a de-oiling, the no reason not to do it.
Vertex recommending that you sand a ball first has everything to do with the fact that their primary business is ball spinners.
And even before ball spinners and ball ovens, the materials(ball cover stock) physical response to thermal energy was mechanically superior to the capillary action that occurs naturally when a porous surface comes in contact with a liquid. That phenomenon hasn't changed. In other words, if you heated the ball, the oil would come out...even without sanding.
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Slightly off topic but IMHO sanding with a low grit does make clean and dull more effective which is why I usually use it as the lubricant for the first step when resurfacing a ball.
Also don't some of the ball manufacturers recommend a low grit sand paper before oil extraction (edit: vaguely remember seeing that somewhere but again might be Brunswick or Storm who also sells resurfacing machines)?
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Slightly off topic but IMHO sanding with a low grit does make clean and dull more effective which is why I usually use it as the lubricant for the first step when resurfacing a ball.
Also don't some of the ball manufacturers recommend a low grit sand paper before oil extraction?
Wouldn't sanding without Clean and Dull achieve the same thing? If you removed a layer of cover stock, then the dirt and oil that Clean and Dull removes wouldn't actually be on the ball anymore as it would have been removed with the material to which it was attached, right?
I don't doubt that some ball companies recommend you sand the ball. As with Vertex, it's financially sound advice(for their needs) for the company to give. But it's probably just one of those things that people hear and repeat without actually thinking about whether or not it does any thing beneficial.
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Green Scotch Brite + clean and dull + deoiling afterwards is the bomb. Especially on aggressive covers. Ball will be as clean as a whistle and be tacky as hell.
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Slightly off topic but IMHO sanding with a low grit does make clean and dull more effective which is why I usually use it as the lubricant for the first step when resurfacing a ball.
Also don't some of the ball manufacturers recommend a low grit sand paper before oil extraction?
Wouldn't sanding without Clean and Dull achieve the same thing? If you removed a layer of cover stock, then the dirt and oil that Clean and Dull removes wouldn't actually be on the ball anymore as it would have been removed with the material to which it was attached, right?
I don't doubt that some ball companies recommend you sand the ball. As with Vertex, it's financially sound advice(for their needs) for the company to give. But it's probably just one of those things that people hear and repeat without actually thinking about whether or not it does any thing beneficial.
The Clean and Dull not only neutralizes any oil it comes in contact with the surface as its being removed (and keeps from being reabsorbed) but also gets a little below the surface especially with the friction opening the pores (I then usually clean with diluted SG and use diluted SG as the lubricant for the rest of the steps). At least that is my opinion. As for extraction can't tell one way or another since I only have the pro shop do it and not since I got back into bowling (except for a few of the old urethane pieces I got off ebay).
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How does oil become neutralized? What does it turn into?
Believe it or not, water is what actually does the cleaning. It just needs help from products like Clean and Dull, Simple Green etc., to defeat the laws of physics as it applies to surface tension.
But by all means, sand your favorite ball down to a marble and bowl on.
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How does oil become neutralized? What does it turn into?
Believe it or not, water is what actually does the cleaning. It just needs help from products like Clean and Dull, Simple Green etc., to defeat the laws of physics as it applies to surface tension.
But by all means, sand your favorite ball down to a marble and bowl on.
Don't resurface that often and because the C&D is so expensive that is when I use it. Actually I get the vast majority of the oil off my equipment without using (very much) water. Iso is a better solvent not needing surfactants (and having to wait around after a session for it to work). Dirt cheap too. Do use a fair amount of diluted SG at home (where don't mind waiting) though which is even cheaper. I hate having to ration expensive ass ball cleaners. Want to coat a ball good without a second thought. Its not that hard or expensive imo to keep oil out of your equipment where the deoiling becomes a once a in a blue moon thing and only for a few of your go to balls.
edit: Iso and simple green both turn the oil into basically dirt that becomes a dark stain on the microfiber you use to wipe it off, but you know this of course. This dirt unlike the oil won't absorb into the ball from what I have seen, have wiped off a few dirt spots I missed hours later)
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Vertex instructions about sanding:
Q1. I do not see any oil on the surface of my ball after using the Personal Revivor for the first
15 minute cycle. Is this normal?
A1. Sometimes. It depends on the ball and the oil being used where you bowl. It may take
more than one 15 minute cycle for the ball to start releasing the oil. If after the second 15
minute cycle you are still not getting any results, rough up the ball surface with 500g
sanding pad and repeat the cycle. Be careful not to exceed the 1 hour recommendation.
***BEFORE ATTEMPTING THIS POSSIBLE SOLUTION BE SURE YOU ARE ABLE
TO RESURFACE THE BALL ONCE IT HAS BEEN REVIVED.
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So after over 10 yrs. of this 'advanced technology & science' they are still NOT sure of the methodology on how or IF it works??????
But hey lets sell em some overpriced food dehydrator for $200 ea. cuz these suckers will buy, buy, buy! Yeah, baby!
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I was told just buying a rejuvenator isn’t enough. You need to have a spinner to hit the ball with a pad to “open it up†some first. Then use the nuball. Then have to shine or dull based on the ball on the spinner again after.
Is this how ya’ll do it? Or simply just use the rejuvenator and then clean it with your normal cleaner after?
Removing the oil is only half the job, in my opinion, because the surface texture changes dramatically over a period of time. A proper resurfacing after the oil has been extracted helps the cover displace oil better and restore reaction more effectively.
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So after over 10 yrs. of this 'advanced technology & science' they are still NOT sure of the methodology on how or IF it works??????
But hey lets sell em some overpriced food dehydrator for $200 ea. cuz these suckers will buy, buy, buy! Yeah, baby!
Not me. Only way I heat up or soak any of my equipment is if a pro shop is willing to replace it if something goes sideways. I have to every now and then soak my epoxy ball in luke warm water but that is the only ball I extract oil out of and only because your pretty much have to (which is why their has only been one epoxy ball). Resurfaces are a different matter and enjoy doing those myself and those are necessary over time oil aside.