I was told just buying a rejuvenator isn’t enough. You need to have a spinner to hit the ball with a pad to “open it up” some first. Then use the nuball. Then have to shine or dull based on the ball on the spinner again after.

Is this how ya’ll do it? Or simply just use the rejuvenator and then clean it with your normal cleaner after?

I was told just buying a rejuvenator isn’t enough. You need to have a spinner to hit the ball with a pad to “open it up” some first. Then use the nuball. Then have to shine or dull based on the ball on the spinner again after.

Is this how ya’ll do it? Or simply just use the rejuvenator and then clean it with your normal cleaner after?

I've heard this quite a few times and it doesn't pass the smell test.

Sure, if you are planning a resurface after a rejuvenator session, by all means sand away. But if you just want to remove the oil, it's not necessary.

The oil got into the ball without help and will come out just fine without sanding to "open it up".

I was told just buying a rejuvenator isn’t enough. You need to have a spinner to hit the ball with a pad to “open it up” some first. Then use the nuball. Then have to shine or dull based on the ball on the spinner again after.

Is this how ya’ll do it? Or simply just use the rejuvenator and then clean it with your normal cleaner after?

No, I have not found that you need to open the pores up before using an oil extractor. Polished balls suck up oil as fast as the same coverstock does when dull. If you use it on less oil, then it will absorb less soil, but it will still absorb it.

You don't really need a spinner to sand a ball but it does the job so much better and so much faster. A spinner is all but essential for polishing a ball.

Quote from: milorafferty on November 03, 2017, 09:51:25 AM

Of course Vertex recommends sanding a ball first, they sell ball spinners.

The sanding of a ball first has nothing to do with vertex selling spinners.

Sanding a ball first goes back to before rejuvenators appeared, when people first started trying to get oil out of a ball and the main method for oil removal was the dawn & Hot water soak method . Sanding the ball first made that method more efficient.

While it may not be totally necessary with today's rejuvenators, sanding of the ball to open up the pores would still make the process much more efficient.

By removing dirt and other grime from the lanes, ball lifts, belts etc. that have become impacted into the porous surface of the ball and which haven't been removed by just surface cleaning.

Plus given most have their ball refinished at the time of a de-oiling, the no reason not to do it.

Vertex recommending that you sand a ball first has everything to do with the fact that their primary business is ball spinners.

And even before ball spinners and ball ovens, the materials(ball cover stock) physical response to thermal energy was mechanically superior to the capillary action that occurs naturally when a porous surface comes in contact with a liquid. That phenomenon hasn't changed. In other words, if you heated the ball, the oil would come out...even without sanding.

Slightly off topic but IMHO sanding with a low grit does make clean and dull more effective which is why I usually use it as the lubricant for the first step when resurfacing a ball.

Also don't some of the ball manufacturers recommend a low grit sand paper before oil extraction?

Wouldn't sanding without Clean and Dull achieve the same thing? If you removed a layer of cover stock, then the dirt and oil that Clean and Dull removes wouldn't actually be on the ball anymore as it would have been removed with the material to which it was attached, right?

I don't doubt that some ball companies recommend you sand the ball. As with Vertex, it's financially sound advice(for their needs) for the company to give. But it's probably just one of those things that people hear and repeat without actually thinking about whether or not it does any thing beneficial.

Quote from: HackJandy on November 03, 2017, 11:00:36 AM

Slightly off topic but IMHO sanding with a low grit does make clean and dull more effective which is why I usually use it as the lubricant for the first step when resurfacing a ball.

Also don't some of the ball manufacturers recommend a low grit sand paper before oil extraction?

Wouldn't sanding without Clean and Dull achieve the same thing? If you removed a layer of cover stock, then the dirt and oil that Clean and Dull removes wouldn't actually be on the ball anymore as it would have been removed with the material to which it was attached, right?

I don't doubt that some ball companies recommend you sand the ball. As with Vertex, it's financially sound advice(for their needs) for the company to give. But it's probably just one of those things that people hear and repeat without actually thinking about whether or not it does any thing beneficial.

The Clean and Dull not only neutralizes any oil it comes in contact with the surface as its being removed (and keeps from being reabsorbed) but also gets a little below the surface especially with the friction opening the pores (I then usually clean with diluted SG and use diluted SG as the lubricant for the rest of the steps).  At least that is my opinion.  As for extraction can't tell one way or another since I only have the pro shop do it and not since I got back into bowling (except for a few of the old urethane pieces I got off ebay).

How does oil become neutralized? What does it turn into?

Believe it or not, water is what actually does the cleaning. It just needs help from products like Clean and Dull, Simple Green etc., to defeat the laws of physics as it applies to surface tension.

But by all means, sand your favorite ball down to a marble and bowl on.

Don't resurface that often and because the C&D is so expensive that is when I use it.  Actually I get the vast majority of the oil off my equipment without using (very much) water.  Iso is a better solvent not needing surfactants (and having to wait around after a session for it to work).  Dirt cheap too.  Do use a fair amount of diluted SG at home (where don't mind waiting) though which is even cheaper.  I hate having to ration expensive ass ball cleaners.  Want to coat a ball good without a second thought.  Its not that hard or expensive imo to keep oil out of your equipment where the deoiling becomes a once a in a blue moon thing and only for a few of your go to balls.

edit:  Iso and simple green both turn the oil into basically dirt that becomes a dark stain on the microfiber you use to wipe it off, but you know this of course.  This dirt unlike the oil won't absorb into the ball from what I have seen, have wiped off a few dirt spots I missed hours later)

So after over 10 yrs. of this 'advanced technology & science' they are still NOT sure of the methodology on how or IF it works???
But hey lets sell em some overpriced food dehydrator for $200 ea. cuz these suckers will buy, buy, buy! Yeah, baby!