Author Topic: I wish (Read 824 times)

pin-chaser · « **on:** March 19, 2005, 11:30:25 AM »

I dont post inital topics very often but I am going to post this despite the arguements that it will incite.

I wish that every bowler, tomorow was a 250 average bowler, all with the same skills and abilities and experiences so that everyone can finally understand just how stupid easy todays scoring environment is. And then, once and for all, everyone would understand that bowling should be more about the physical skills required to compete than the pattern on the lane and the ball in the hand. If we all averaged 250 the difference would be about a bad break in carry in every match, off sport or cracked pins and then it would be apparent to everyone we need change to provide a mechanism to better determine the skilled.

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sdbowler · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2005, 07:54:47 PM »

I still think that not enough people stop and think about how even today's shots require physical skills as well as mental skills. Yeah most of us are in the habit of bowling at the same house starting in the same spots and moving usually the same way each night. However without having the physical skills to repeat every shot you won't do much. The bowler still needs to execute the shot each time. I don't care what people say that today's balls make the sport easier. Yes to an extent they do. But it still comes down to the person throwing the ball. Are averages the best way to tell who is the better bowlers? They are but they are not. There are nights when I shoot 590 that I feel like I threw the ball better then when I shot 650. Difference would be carry for one and not the other. I hope this makes sense.
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BRUNSWICK

pin-chaser · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2005, 07:29:23 AM »

Bones,

I disagree with your entire statement.

Choice is a dual edge sword.

It is absolutely required that children get vacinated. No choice about it. Even though, these causes difficulties and even kill some children every year. But in the best interest of everyone, it is required by our government. I am sure we have lost some potential citizens of the US.

In auto's, it is required that people use seatbelts. It is confining and kills every year.

The list is endless. And in everycase there will be people who simply dont want it and those that break the rules or leave.

And so under your statement, you are giving the power to the lesser skilled bowlers to mandate the scoring enviroment. And as I have said many times before, you give children candy and that is all they want. You give a 170 average bowler the technology to score a 300 game every year and 200 average bowlers the technology to shoot several 300's every year, you make the stupid easy and why would anyone ever want to change?

That reason is one reason this sport is decline. THERE IS NO INTEGRITY LEFT. Let me give you an example... The Budweisers 3858 5 man, scratch series... has been beat now several times. And I recognize that all scores are meant to be broken as is all laws. But lets looks at who was on that team... Ray Bluth, Don Carter, Pat Patterson, Tom Hennessey and Dick Weber. (Low man on the team was DW with 258,258,259). Each and every one of these bowlers could be named on the best bowlers of all time top 20 list. But there is no one on any of the teams that would be so ranked much less every one of them. How is this fair the accomplishment of the budweisers?

Todays technology is simply cheating in comparison to what used to be. And all cheaters want there advantage to continue. Everyone wants there upper hand. But that does not make it right or fair. Nor does it help bring new bowlers, retain bowlers long term. All it does is spoil those bowling into believing that they are of some calibur and when they take there game to the next level, they find out they are not. And then they choice what to do next.

Bones, you have to stop siding with what is happening and start voicing your own honest opinion. You know it is not what is right for the game of bowling. You have been at the top and you know of which I proclaim. I agree that the change is impossible but that impossibility has to happen if this "hobby" is to become a real sport. Perhaps it never will but it should.
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Reality Check · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2005, 08:09:08 AM »

Perhaps I am wrong, but some of the arguements we continually hear about where bowling is going seem somewhat odd to me.

When people could only bowl with rubber bowling balls, people still bowled even if the ball did not move half a lane.

When urethane came out, people adapted to the increase in movement and the change in the areas of lane that could be played

When reactive and particle arrived, people adapted to a more zonal target area due to the increase in movement. As time has gone on through the start of the reactive era through to the current circumstances, different styles have flourished, and bowlers have adapted.

Bowling has always been about competitors matching up to their surroundings. Watch the pro tour or any top level tournament finals, and there is always a difference between who wins and who loses, be it mental game, equipment, talent, physical prowess or something else. Players adapt to the conditions they are playing on . . . the best players in the world play on the hardest conditions, and learn how to maximise their scoring on those. Those players who play on what is being called THS learn how to maximise their scoring on that. If all players were forced to play on a sport shot, within 6 months they would have adapted to that, and start scoring more and more, by combining their familiarity with the conditions with choices of equipment.

Bowling's decline is more to do with a lack of promotion of it as a sport, with not enough made of the variables that are found, including lane surface and lane condition. Ball companies and their staff members need to push that sport aspect more, and bowling in general needs to get around more to centres, and demonstrate what the tough conditions are like, and how good you really have to be in order to succeed at the highest levels. That way, we might stand a chance of showing bowlers who average 240 on a house shot why they should not be just content with that, but should push on and improve their technique.
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Reality Is.......Working out how to carry the 10, only to start leaving the 7.

Reality Check · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2005, 09:03:27 AM »

I concur wholeheartedly with Sawbones with regards to MichiganBowling's suggestions over different degrees of difficulty. One of the things I applaud about the new PBA is the fact that they have made an effort to explain and expand on the differences between the different lane patterns. Perhaps averages could be graded based on the conditions, from PBA patterns to THS.
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Reality Is.......Working out how to carry the 10, only to start leaving the 7.

pin-chaser · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2005, 12:30:23 PM »

Bones, in your first reply you did not say you supported it.. you said "in an ideal world". Then followed by, "that will never happen." You never said that it was a good idea and one you would want to happen until your second reply. You have always stated the obvious of what is happening in our bowling community.. not you own personal views.

RealityCheck, given your contention that bowlers will adapt why are we so concerned about the change? Why are we concerned that bowling community will quit the game if we insist that a 200 average be a good score of quailty shots? Why does Bones feel as though it will never fly? Who is in charge? Who should be in charge of the direction of the "sport"?

I dont argue that indeed if bowling was to implement some sort of requirement to skills needed to score, that in time bowlers would somehow find, learn or otherwise improve. And just what is wrong with that. This admits that things are too easy now anyway. Come on you guys... you cant have your cake and eat it too. Its all about making bowling better than it is now. Turning the ship around and building integrity.
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Reality Check · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2005, 05:16:27 PM »

I think that the people currently in charge of the sport at a domestic level do not believe that people would stick it out if their scores went down for a short period of time. I for one do not advocate limiting equipment. Use all the equipment you want, adapt it to your game, but it will still come down to the players with the most consistancy over a season or long haul tournament who will win.

I think all scratch leagues should be made to bowl on a tougher pattern (shall we say sports compliant?), and acknowledge scratch league averages from these conditions as the best you can get at amateur level.

Handicap leagues can be played on any pattern, but unless they are compliant patterns, they are only acknowledged as Grade 2. The same could be done for honour scores and the like.

Would you expect to get the same prize for a hole in one on a 300 yard hole as you would on a 2 yard hole?
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Reality Is.......Working out how to carry the 10, only to start leaving the 7.

stanski · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2005, 05:45:56 PM »

quote:
Reality, you state just what I have contended for ever. People will adapt to the condition if given enough time. Its not fair to belittle that bowler who bowls on a THS in his home house 36 wks a yr and accrues a 200+ ave, when he ventures to a strange house for a tourney where the condition is much tougher and only manages to eke out a low 500 series.

Take that same bowler and let him bowl for 36 wks on that tougher condition and if he is any bowler at all, he will find a way to approach that 200 ave.

Those who dared to challenge the Sport Compliant leagues did not start out very well compared to the scores they had been used to on the THS, but as the season wore on, they gradually increased their ave---again indicating that bowlers will adapt if given enough time.

Pin-chaser, while you say you disagree with my first statement, if you reread, you will find that I advocate different degrees of difficulty for various leagues. Golf accomodates golfers of different degrees of ability by placing various tees different distances from the hole.
I love golf, but enjoy it more playing from a forward tee where I can make a par now and then compared to playing from the tips where making pars might be only accidental. As a golfer, I do not insist that we only have one set of tees and that those tees need to be close enough to allow hacks like me to reach a par 4 in two shots.

Bowling needs different degrees of difficulty just as Michiagn Bowler has been advocating for quite some time.
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Bones

And just like with bowling, many golfers will say you are not really playing golf if you aren't playing from the blues or farther back. Many will say that your average is meaningless unless you are bowling on some semblence of a tough shot.

I personally like your idea of having people realize that different levels of lanes require different ability levels, yet more bowlers complain about "bad lanes conditions" at the easiest houses in town than I can count. They blame the lanes for their bowling. Golfers can also be like this, blaming poor green mantenance for their innability to sink a 5 footer. Only playing municipals (however, some of the best municipals in the country are in the metro detroit area), I am used to greens being filled with ball marks and unraked bunkers. I believe the pro's shouldn't rake bunkers, just so that they don't prefer landing in bunkers to heavy rough.

The difference is, tougher conditions in golf are promoted as the real way to play golf and "fun." tough conditions in bowling are viewed as proprietors being jerks. This is a stigma that has to be changed somehow
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stanski

pin-chaser · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2005, 05:53:13 PM »

Reality,

Under your theory golf (at any level) should allow any kind of golf ball and any kind of golf club but should make the course more difficult. But we dont see that. The golfing industry has made decisions to keep some level of integrity.

As well tennis has implemented controls on tennis rackets and tennis balls saying some are unfair and cant be used it competition.

Perhaps bowling should have multipul levels and each level should have some level of restrictions that would include lane patterns and technology. But I fear that doing so would simply continue to do what is happening today... that bowlers learn skills that they cant exploit on the next level. And either they have to relearn or they stay stagnent or quit because it is boring to stay still with the same skill. The increase in average should come from skills and not better techonolgy or a more knowledgable ball driller.

For what it is worth, it is my contention that despite the changes in the conditioner, the patterns are as easy today as they have always been since I have been bowling in the US (late 70's). The difference is that technology expliots the patterns and changes them (good and bad). Friction and Flair has created balls that strike at will, most often despite the bolwer. Toughing patterns is not the answer alone.
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Author Topic: I wish (Read 824 times)

pin-chaser

I wish

sdbowler

Re: I wish

pin-chaser

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Reality Check

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Reality Check

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pin-chaser

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Reality Check

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stanski

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pin-chaser

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