Author Topic: League subs, sandbagging, etc. (Read 4283 times)

qstick777 · « **on:** May 05, 2005, 05:26:59 PM »

I'm curious as to how most leagues are set up with legal team rosters, the use of subs, etc.

My current league has 4 person teams, but will allow a 5th teammate as a designated sub. Only teammates are allowed to bowl during position rounds, so your sub can technically bowl only on position rounds. The summer league I bowled last year (and will probably do again this year) had 5 person teams, but allowed 7 on the roster.

Inevitably what would happen is a team would carry a "ringer" and then conveniently bring that person in only on position rounds, or worse yet they would have the ringer bowl 1 week (and sandbag) to establish a low (lower) average (say maybe 170ish) then during position rounds the "ringer" has "the night of my life" and rips out 220+ games.

Given that summer leagues are shorter, it is that much more difficult to make up those points lost to the ringer.

Do you guys have rules on minimum games for people to bowl during position rounds? How can you eliminate this sandbagging?

Last year my team was 4th going into the position round (teams were very close in points). The 3rd place team brought in an outside person, made them a team member, and took all 7 points (the outside guy bowled a 200+ first game, then bagged the last 2 to get a nice little handicap for the team - just enough for them to win all games and totals). Losing those 7 points was enough for us to fall down to 8th or 10th (out of 14 teams), and we never recovered. The 7 points was enough for the other team to move into 2nd and cruise to a top finish.

What rules can be added to prevent this from happening again?

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2005, 08:49:05 AM »

Every league I have ever bowled in has required that in order for a person to bowl in a position round/roll off they had to have X number of games.

qstick777 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2005, 09:23:23 AM »

quote:
Captains will submit a roster of team members to the secretary by the end of the first week of the schedule. Rosters will be limited to six players. Any roster changes must be reported to the league secretary prior to the start of any series. No roster additions may be made on position rounds and on the final two weeks of the schedule.

This league does use roving, or floating, substitutes. Men may sub for women and women may sub for men provided the 4:1 gender ratio is adhered to. No new substitutes will be allowed on position rounds and during the last two weeks of the league schedule. Substitutes used on position rounds must have a current league average within (+ or -) 10 pins of the bowler they are replacing.

This is the only thing I can find from the league rules. If a team is 5 members, but you can have 6 on a roster then technically you can save your "ringer" for only the position rounds. The other thing that got me was that you can use a roving sub during position rounds as long as they are within 10 pins of the person they are replacing.

How hard is it to sub for a team and sandbag, then sub for another team during position rounds (there are only 2 PR in the summer - its 14 weeks and PR are on week 7 and 14) and shoot the lights out?

I know its a summer league and its supposed to be fun, but some teams just take it too far so that they can win. I also know its summer, so you have to be flexible with the rules.

Should I propose an amendment to the rules during the initial meeting?

I'm just a little steamed that we dropped from the top 4 to the bottom 4 (12 team league) and the prize fund ended up heavily favoring the top 4 teams.

qstick777 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 06, 2005, 11:44:18 AM »

Okay, so maybe I can propose something like:

quote:
No subs allowed on position rounds. Team members must have bowled 6 games to bowl in first position round, and 12 to bowl in second (last) position round.

What is the best way to approach this in the meeting? This is only my 3rd league, and the league is pretty well established with plenty of "regulars." I don't want to come across as a d!ck, or somebody that is super competitive.

My team probably doesn't stand a chance of winning, and we don't have a large reserve of people that could sub for us (we might not even be able to field a full team and are willing to use a vacant bowler - this is just a fun league and chance to practice over the summer). I just don't see why teams would want to bring somebody in just for PRs. If the regular team member can't make it, just take the absent score (avg minus 10).

I could probably find a few "ringers" that would bowl for a pitcher of beer, or a few bucks, but I would feel like that is cheating.

Keith Frye · « **Reply #4 on:** May 06, 2005, 12:00:47 PM »

Many leagues also require the use of entering average (high book average or average from previous season in that league) for the first x number of games instead of establishing an average (9 games is pretty common). This way it will be a few weeks and possibly a number of lost points before a bowler/team would benefit from "lower" scores in the first weeks of the season.

qstick777 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 06, 2005, 12:18:45 PM »

Unfortunately this league is for "fun," so they establish your average after 3 games. Individual improvement awards are based on average after a certain number of games (don't remember exactly, but may 9 or 12 games).

I guess with such a short season it doesn't really matter. If you were a 200 avg, you could bowl 6 games and keep your average at 170, then bowl up to your ability in the position round. Difference is at 170 you have a 45 pin handicap, while at 200 it would only be 18 pins, so its almost 30 pins a game just in handicap and then another 30 pins over average, so its 60 pins per game or 180 pins for the series.

Its a really fun league, its just 1 or 2 teams that want to make it hyper competitive with these "shady" tactics. I guess maybe this year we will just try and stay 2 positions away from them

Author Topic: League subs, sandbagging, etc. (Read 4283 times)

qstick777

League subs, sandbagging, etc.

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: League subs, sandbagging, etc.

qstick777

Re: League subs, sandbagging, etc.

qstick777

Re: League subs, sandbagging, etc.

Keith Frye

Re: League subs, sandbagging, etc.

qstick777

Re: League subs, sandbagging, etc.