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Author Topic: Exempt players and regionals  (Read 1646 times)

Pinbuster

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Exempt players and regionals
« on: August 08, 2004, 07:33:40 PM »
They held a PBA regional in town this last weekend. Of the 100 entries into the tournament 12 were exempt national tour players. Of these exempt players 1 withdrew, 2 didn’t cash, 8 made match play (top 16), 6 of the top 8, and with the top 4 all being exempt players.

Is this situation the best for the PBA?

Is the purpose of the PBA regional program is to develop new talent? If so then you are denying the field of half the match play learning slots.  

Yes your need to compete with the best to become the best but you also need to build some experience and gain confidence. Getting your hat handed to you all the time doesn’t gain you anything.

If this is going to be the minor leagues for the exempt tour maybe they need to keep the major leaguers out.



 

jimensminger

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2004, 10:52:35 AM »
I agree. The Regionals should be for Regional players. The SW Regional was the same way over the weekend...Top 4 all Exempts...Like letting Tiger play the Nationwide Tour. But until the regular tour gets more money these exempt guys are trying to make a living..
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shotmaker

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2004, 11:08:27 AM »
I disagree with both of you. Keep the exempt players in there, let them bowl. The exempt players need to keep building points in the region in case they are not in the automatically exempt group after the tour season. Besides, if you don't think you can bowl against these guys why would you call yourself a "PBA Player" or "Pro Bowler".

I can't tell you how disapointing it is to hear so many really good players whine about this. It's no wonder there are almost no decent scratch tournaments around. The tournaments that are around usually ban anyone with a PBA card anyway. Where are all the up and coming bowlers with some confidence in their abilities? Have we created a bowling generation of wimps? A generation of scratch bowlers who would rather whine about fairness than shoe-up and gain the respect of the best bowlers on the planet? Give me a break, you only need to beat 1 man in a best-of series or a 1 game match to win the title.

Why water down the achievement of PBA Title? If you have a PBA Title it should represent the fact that for 1 tournament you were the best....period. Not the best of the rest, there are local sweepers for that. ****sigh****

Bowling will die soon I'm afraid, if you are a great bowler nobody wants to bowl against you. If your good, you are banned from local tournaments. Now some people want to do the same at the highest level of the sport...........


Los300

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2004, 11:23:55 AM »
I believe that the exempt tour players have every right to participate in regionals. They have to keep themselves sharp on the PBA patterns and remain tournament tested in the off season so they can come out in the fall and be at the top of their games. Also, when do the normal regional players and guests get the chance to go head to head with and test their skills against some of the absolute best in the world pretty much in their own backyard? Just to have the chance to bowl with and against those guys is an opportunity that should be embraced.
Plus, it is nice for the fans that come out to a regional to see guys that they see on TV winning big titles up close and personal. Those people may not get the chance to meet  or even watch these guys ever in person. Whatsmore, after the competition is over you can get autographs and pictures with the Exempt Tour guys that you can save and show off.
So what I am basically getting to is that I love the fact that Exempt Tour guys bowl regionals and hope the ones that do bowl keep doing it and that the ones who do not start to.
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bamaster

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2004, 11:24:13 AM »
quote:
I disagree with both of you. Keep the exempt players in there, let them bowl. The exempt players need to keep building points in the region in case they are not in the automatically exempt group after the tour season. Besides, if you don't think you can bowl against these guys why would you call yourself a "PBA Player" or "Pro Bowler".

I can't tell you how disapointing it is to hear so many really good players whine about this. It's no wonder there are almost no decent scratch tournaments around. The tournaments that are around usually ban anyone with a PBA card anyway. Where are all the up and coming bowlers with some confidence in their abilities? Have we created a bowling generation of wimps? A generation of scratch bowlers who would rather whine about fairness than shoe-up and gain the respect of the best bowlers on the planet? Give me a break, you only need to beat 1 man in a best-of series or a 1 game match to win the title.

Why water down the achievement of PBA Title? If you have a PBA Title it should represent the fact that for 1 tournament you were the best....period. Not the best of the rest, there are local sweepers for that. ****sigh****

Bowling will die soon I'm afraid, if you are a great bowler nobody wants to bowl against you. If your good, you are banned from local tournaments. Now some people want to do the same at the highest level of the sport...........






Yeah, what he said.

Bring them chumps on!  They may be beat me day in and day out.... but I don't want to bowl anyone else.

Tony
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seadrive

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2004, 12:04:51 PM »
It's hard enough to find centers willing to give up their regular revenue stream for three days, without telling them there will be no "name players" for them to sell to their prospective Pro-Am customers.

If that were not the case, then I'd agree that exempt touring players should not be allowed to bowl regionals.  You macho turkeys can strut and pose all you want, but you don't belong on the same lanes as the best players in the world.

When twelve touring pros show up for a regional, they throw all but two or three regional players in the field into that other category, called DONATORS.  If you're there because you want to bowl with the best in the sport, bowl the Pro-Am at a National event.

If the PBA's goal with the regional tour is to emulate baseball's farm system, then you have to do it the way baseball does it.  Once you graduate to the majors, you don't get to go back and whoop up on the scrubs.

Sorry if that sounds a little harsh, but that's the way I see it.
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Pinbuster

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2004, 12:40:53 PM »
Of course the exempt players have the right to bowl in regionals. The rules currently allow it.

But I know of no other sport where the big leaguers can go down in the minors during the off season and take money and spots away from the minor leaguers.

You don’t see Shaq playing CBA ball.

You won’t see Barry Bonds playing semi pro baseball.

You won’t see Tom Brady quarterbacking an arena football team.

Yes they all make handsome livings playing their major league sport but I don’t know if that is really an issue.

This is not the highest level of the sport, the national tour is.

You want to bowl against the big boys then prove you have the ability first by beating the regional players first. Why does everyone think in bowling that if they carry a 200 average that they should be able to go head to head against the best?

To go along with this, since regionals are held during the national tour season as well, should an asterisk be beside the name of bowlers cashing and winning regionals when no exempt players are present?

stanski

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2004, 12:59:16 PM »
many of you seem to forget that big league baseball players go down to the minors all the time. pudge rodriquez played 15 games during rehab for his knee i believe last year. this happens all the time in baseball.

in basketball, they have a summer league where all the nbda and nba players all play together. in golf, many players go back and forth year after year between the nationwide tour and the pga tour.

bowling is not the only sport where people are allowed to hop back and forth between sports.
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cgilyeat

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2004, 01:03:18 PM »
Let them bowl, if you want to have the PBA card, then you should be willing to bowl against whoever shows up.  If the competition scares you, then drop the card and don't bowl.  Remember, "On any given day..."  even the great ones can and do have a bad day.  No one in unbeatable, and yes they will do better the majority of the time, but when all is said and done, the higher level of competition will make us better.

Edited on 8/9/2004 12:57 PM

Pinbuster

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2004, 01:05:35 PM »
Also let me say I have nothing personnel at stake here. I haven’t bowled regionals and I won’t bowl regionals and I have no vested interest in anybody who does. I do not bowl because I’m afraid of the competition it is I simply know I’m not good enough to beat very many of the regular regional players. I’m a hack and I know it. Until I could dominate in a local area I sure wouldn’t move on to a bigger pond.

I have a couple of friends who are exempt players and it was an easy payday for them with one winning the regional. I am happy for him but I still wonder about the state of a sport that allows this in it’s minor leagues.

MichiganBowling

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2004, 01:14:16 PM »
Great thread Pinbuster and some really great points being made.

I suppose my answer is in regards to a "perfect world".  I've always been the type to define the "perfect world", and then try to find the solution to get there.  In a "perfect world"...

There would be at least 100 exempt touring PBA Players on the tour every season making a living, but the PBA would still be open to at least 28 more spots every week.  Obviously, if both of those numbers were even bigger, that would be great!

There would be at 28 events during the season and another 14 or so in the summer for a "Summer Tour".  That's 42 weeks giving the players 10 weeks off as vacation time.  

Of the 28 season events, there would be 4 tournaments or more that are open to as many entries as they can fill, sort of like they do now with the U.S. Open, Championship, and ABC Masters.  These 4 events would represent The Grand Slam of Bowling.

The Regional Circuit would in fact be a minor league system for bowling.  These players would make names for themselves, and their fellow regional players would pull for them when they bowl in the 4 touring events and other Touring events close to home.  Perhaps those spots open on Tour would be only open to Regional PBA players in that region and 2 amateurs or so.  Throwing a couple of amateurs in always makes things a little more exciting.

There would be enough money so that the 100th bowler in the world (on Tour) is making $120,000 per year revenue (before expenses and entry fees) assuming he bowls all 42 events.  At $2000 expense/event or $84,000 for the season, the person would still have $36,000 for the other 10 weeks of vacation time and to pay bills back at home.

Bowling on Tour would actually be a profession.  Bowlers would be paid a regular salary in addition to their winnings to go around and do seminars in between events and meet with the local folk in small town America.

Again, this is "in a perfect world" which we are far away from at this time.  But who knows, maybe it can happen.
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Pinbuster

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2004, 01:33:02 PM »
Liquid – Since you want to pull  my statement out of context. Why don’t you bowl on the national tour anymore? Where you afraid of the competition or did you realize that you really were not good enough to compete on that level? Would you bowl regionals if you knew that unless you had a great week that you couldn’t even cash?

Most you guys sound like the local hustlers on the golf course.

I grant you car drivers sometimes run other types during their off season.

Baseball players go down for injury rehab and to get their timing back before go back to the bigs but I don’t believe they taking money away from any minor leaguers.

What NFL player plays during the off season?

Fringe players in the NBA play in player development leagues but I don’t know if you would call them minors and is really more like skilled practice.

stennis

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2004, 01:42:24 PM »
From a fan's perspective:

We had a regional in my town over the weekend that featured Double D, Steve Jaros, Pete Weber, Dale Traber, Riga Kalfas, Eugene McCune, ... I'm probably forgetting some. It was a great show. It's not often you get to see the best of the best at your local center.

From a bowler's perspective:

I'm just a competitive league hack that would LOVE to compete on the PBA patterns and against these guys. I don't stand a chance of beating them, but it would be a thrill. I probably would have had a heart attack by the third game if I were paired with Jaros (as one of our local players was).

Let them bowl, it's good for the game. Hype the he** out of them being in town. We did get some local TV and news coverage.
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Round Balls

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2004, 01:55:29 PM »
quote:
Of course the exempt players have the right to bowl in regionals. The rules currently allow it.

But I know of no other sport where the big leaguers can go down in the minors during the off season and take money and spots away from the minor leaguers.

You don't see Shaq playing CBA ball.

You wont see Barry Bonds playing semi pro baseball.

You wont see Tom Brady quarterbacking an arena football team.

Yes they all make handsome livings playing their major league sport but I don't know if that is really an issue.

This is not the highest level of the sport, the national tour is.

You want to bowl against the big boys then prove you have the ability first by beating the regional players first. Why does everyone think in bowling that if they carry a 200 average that they should be able to go head to head against the best?

To go along with this, since regionals are held during the national tour season as well, should an asterisk be beside the name of bowlers cashing and winning regionals when no exempt players are present?



If you can come up with the money and ask them to play I bet they will!!! If you threw in 100K (for a game ) shaq or any of those guys they will!! YOU BET THEY WILL.
offcousre if their contract allow them or not will be diff story.
THIS IS PBA why you join if you are affrid. Oh yea Blame it on the Lanes. I am good I am PBA who ever complanie on this is a whimp or big time want to be.

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Edited on 8/9/2004 1:52 PM

ksucat

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Re: Exempt players and regionals
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2004, 01:58:47 PM »
This is a tough issue.  I don't think there are enough opportunities for the exempt players that they should be banned from the regionals.  This gives them the opportunity to practice their skills against real competition without the risk of losing their livelihood in the process.  It also gives the rest a chance to measure up to a portion of what the major leagues are like.  

However, I would be in favor of limiting the number of regionals the exempt player can enter during the year.  I also like the idea of limiting the number of exempt players allowed to enter an individual tournament.  I don't have any idea what these numbers should be, but this would allow the exempt player his practice without killing off too many wanna-be's.  We need more hacks like me to want to try the regionals.  These tournaments could provide the grass-roots marketing tool that will draw out much more interest in the big leagues.  

The pro-ams are the place where anybody can bowl side by side with the professionals.  These events should be run similar to fantasy camps or coaching clinics.  This is not the place to test skills against the pros, but to meet them and learn from their knowledge.