Post by: SHEET on February 02, 2004, 10:05:24 PM
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"I'll BOWL ANYBODY!!!!!!"
Make sure the $$$ is enough and all there...
Post by: iommifan on February 03, 2004, 01:22:45 PM
Post by: channel surfer on February 03, 2004, 01:25:24 PM
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My Bowling Clinic Site: http://csbowling.vze.com
ASK A PRO:http://csbowling.vze.com/atp.shtml
www.bowlersdream.com - save an additional $3 off any $100 order by simply typing in CSB into the coupon code area at checkout.
Post by: Soonermike on February 03, 2004, 01:29:11 PM
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SoonerMike
Post by: shotmaker on February 03, 2004, 01:30:08 PM
Post by: jkiser01 on February 03, 2004, 01:34:28 PM
I pay around $25 bucks out the door for a blank drill and my pro shop guy is perfectly happy to drill internet balls. He is in business to make money, not give out lectures to people that bring him balls brought elsewhere to drill and he and does a great business. He is not out to screw people on drill charges like alot of shops that I hear about..
I'm sure most if not all of the pro shop operators on here totally disagree with me, but thats OK. I am just stating my opinion..
I also realize this is a business and if someone wants to pay $75 bucks to get a ball drilled and agrees to it, then thats great. As long as the person wanting the ball drilled is happy and willing to pay that much, then it really makes no difference..
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If they only made a ball that would carry that d*mn 10 pin..
jkiser01
Edited on 2/3/2004 2:35 PM
Post by: iommifan on February 03, 2004, 01:37:03 PM
Post by: SHEET on February 03, 2004, 01:48:50 PM
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"I'll BOWL ANYBODY!!!!!!"
Make sure the $$$ is enough and all there...
Post by: Hamburglar on February 03, 2004, 01:56:52 PM
I can't imagine that a shop would charge for drilling a ball if you buy it there...now sure I can see a charge for inserts and plugs, that's only logical...but an extra $25-$40 bucks to drill a ball you bought from them is crazy!!! That's like going to a bar and ordering a pitcher of beer and they tell you its $5 for the beer but another $2.50 to put it in the pitcher!
On the other hand, if you buy a ball somewhere else (like off the internet) and want it drilled, then you should have to pay for that service...although $75 is a rip even if the person is a good driller.
Edited on 2/3/2004 2:53 PM
Post by: Ernie McCracken on February 03, 2004, 02:00:01 PM
Post by: SHEET on February 03, 2004, 02:03:58 PM
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"I'll BOWL ANYBODY!!!!!!"
Make sure the $$$ is enough and all there...
Post by: jkiser01 on February 03, 2004, 02:12:07 PM
I don't know where you live but if I went into a pro shop and the guy behind the counter had an attitude like you seem to have, I wouldn't stand in any line.. I would leave asap and find someone that wants to treat me fairly and not make a killing off me and my friends.. I also recommend people to my pro shop guy because he treats people right and has very fair prices..
The bottom line is this. We do still need pro shops to drill our stuff and thats not an issue, my issue is pro shops that take advantage of people and there are alot of those still out there in business..
Over time, people will all learn to go elsewhere and that place will close, which is a good thing for everybody..
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If they only made a ball that would carry that d*mn 10 pin..
jkiser01
Post by: Borincano on February 03, 2004, 02:14:10 PM
Post by: Mackreldog on February 03, 2004, 02:19:20 PM
Arguments over expensive and overpriced pro shops
Arguments over expensive and overpriced bowling balls
Arguments over expensive and overpriced jock itch medicine
Do you see it too?
Post by: SHEET on February 03, 2004, 02:25:58 PM
This guy also charges for drilling when buying a new piece from him.
Is he still the man WTBD???
--------------------
"I'll BOWL ANYBODY!!!!!!"
Make sure the $$$ is enough and all there...
Post by: SHEET on February 03, 2004, 02:30:54 PM
--------------------
"I'll BOWL ANYBODY!!!!!!"
Make sure the $$$ is enough and all there...
Post by: shotmaker on February 03, 2004, 04:24:59 PM
quote:
This is what does not make sense. I take a ball to be plugged and drilled. I pay no more than $30.00. Now I take a new ball and they want $50.00. There is more work in one of them and they charge less. In the other is just the drilling and they charge more. Where is the logic? I always take my own grips and slugs to be installed.
The Pro Shop Operator may charge more in this case because if he ruins your new ball and has to replace it, it costs a lot of money. If he screws up on a plug/redrill, he can just plug it over and it will be fine. He may not even screw up the drilling, I've seen balls jump out of the fixture while drilling and get wrecked that way.
Bottom line seems to be if you don't like it, go somewhere else. There have been many good reasons posted in this thread for paying a little more. If it's still too much, find someone who fits into your budget better. If your in the Chicago area I recommend Chicago's Bowling Store. He does a great job and keeps himself very competitively priced.
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on February 03, 2004, 10:46:10 PM
I lay out and draw out how I want my ball drilled on my own, he drills the holes, and I finish off the beveling, etc. I guess I am lucky, as I can get an Inferno $185 out the door with him.
Although some of those guys who are quite expensive in terms of drilling you a bowling ball, I have to admit that they are very thorough in their services. I guess some pro shops sell their knowledge about the game when setting up a reaction, etc, too.
--------------------
-Jeremy Vitug
MFBSB!!!
"Guys, guys, guys... listen. I have a fever... and the only prescription is more cowbell!"
Post by: golfnutFL on February 03, 2004, 11:09:12 PM
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WTBD-
At $199 you make only $50???? You can buy the ball for $130 at Buddies Pro Shop and I'm sure that he's not losing money. It is not uncommon to find this ball selling for $110 or less via e-bay. Do you think bowlingball.com is just giving them away? I know that my local proshop pays about $100 wholesale for them. So either Brunswick is ripping you off or you're making a little more than you claim.
Post by: Mike Austin on February 03, 2004, 11:20:45 PM
I have ala carte pricing on balls, Raging Inferno $155.95+tax, $50.00 for drilling, $5.95 for slug, $2.95 each for grips. I throw in grips and slugs for regulars. His $199.95 drilled is pretty good, Raging Inferno should retail around $219.95. Gonna be about $220 out the door from me, and that ball is doing pretty well.
--------------------
Mike Austin
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
strikes4days@sbcglobal.net
Storm Pro Shop Staff Member
Vise Grips Staff Member
Onward through the Storm!!!!
Check out my web site - www.BirdDogBowling.com
Post by: HamPster on February 04, 2004, 04:22:29 AM
I bet the majority of you have a job where you get paid more than you're worth. Do you complain about it? Not a chance. Would you scream if the boss suggested you take a pay cut. HELL YES. You'd pay the same whether you bought a ball online and brought it in to have it drilled or bought it at our shop. We get SO many people that come in and say, "So and so screwed this up, can you fix it?" Well frickin DUH, they probably gave you a discount, right? So instead of paying us to do a GOOD job, you'd rather have trailer park Bob punch holes in a couple hundred dollar ball for a couple bucks off. Then when he screws it up, you end up paying MORE between the drilling and having us fix it than you would have if you just brought it here to begin with. If you want GOOD service and GOOD workmanship, you bring the ball to us, PERIOD.
--------------------
The weekly signature series, by Hamster, presenting a mini-series of quotes from Shrek!
"You know how you tryin to give somebody the hint, but they won't leave, then there's that big awkward silence, you know . . . ."
Post by: Pinbuster on February 04, 2004, 10:02:41 AM
There is a steady stream of bowlers coming in with balls to drill. Everyone already knows there measurements. Everyone already knows how they want the ball drilled and they know their PAP. They will finish all the balls themselves. Balls never crack, no warranty complaints, etc, etc.
Assuming all that you can layout and drill a ball in 15 minutes. WOW that’s 80 bucks an hour with $20 for drilling fees. And if that was the scenario then I would do it.
But the reality is. You only get a couple each day. Most don’t have a clue of their measurements. Most don’t have a clue of how the ball should be drilled. Most don’t know their PAP. They don’t have any idea on how to finish a ball. You have to explain warranty issues (drilling to close to pins, bridge width, drilling finger holes together at the bottom, beveling holes). You end up spending an average of 45 minutes to an hour on a ball.
You have to average things out and generate enough revenue to stay in business. When someone calls and wants to know the price to drill a blank ball you can’t go $20 to $100 depending on how big a pain the butt you are.
Unless the proshop is being run the proprietor as a service to their league customers you will loose your shirt charging $20 (particularly if you throw in inserts). We have had a lot of operators around here try and it and after a year or two they give up to get real jobs. I haven’t seen a proshop owner yet that was living the high life.
If you are willing to not have a proshop in every bowling establishment so that you only had 1 proshop for 5,000 league bowlers then maybe you could lower prices some. But would you be willing to wait a while because they were always busy.
PS. Our wholesale price on an Inferno is $129 and that is best price you can get from our distributor. We would sell the ball including drilling for $199.
Post by: thegame on February 04, 2004, 10:17:20 AM
Post by: Rick Wunder on February 04, 2004, 11:06:00 AM
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RW (THB)
Edited on 2/4/2004 12:04 PM
Edited on 2/4/2004 3:28 PM
Post by: jkiser01 on February 04, 2004, 12:06:39 PM
If yours was the only shop in my town, I would drive somewhere else.. People do not come into a pro shop to get lectured on prices or why they went somewhere else.. Your attitude in my opinion is horrible..
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If they only made a ball that would carry that d*mn 10 pin..
jkiser01
Post by: SHEET on February 04, 2004, 12:09:20 PM
--------------------
"I'll BOWL ANYBODY!!!!!!"
Make sure the $$$ is enough and all there...
Post by: SHEET on February 04, 2004, 01:19:16 PM
--------------------
"I'll BOWL ANYBODY!!!!!!"
Make sure the $$$ is enough and all there...
Post by: Mike Austin on February 04, 2004, 04:20:39 PM
If most of my customers came in and said I want a Barbed Wire, drill it like you did my Power Charge, 15lbs and I'll be back tomorrow to pick it up, that would awesome. That's pretty much how you are, Jim.
Hamster doesn't have a bad attitude, he sees what busy operators see. This business is brutal to make a living at. MOST everybody wants a discount or free. We don't get to mark up stuff like jewelry, if I bought an Inferno for $129.00 and could sell it for $774, I would be glad to knock off $100 or more for you, my good customer. You would feel like you got a good deal, and I made a very nice mark up. But, the reality is I buy it at $129.00, sell it for $155.95 undrilled. Most people can get it on line for $140.00. Drilling Fee is $50.00 whether you buy the ball from me or not.
I have a pro shop 15 minutes from me that sells that Inferno for $189.00 drilled. He has raised his prices. He used to charge $25 for blank drills. I have been where I am for 5 years now. There have been 15 other guys in my same location, and never could make it, the other guy was so cheap, they couldn't survive. But I'm a whole other animal, I don't like to brag, but I'm as good as anybody in the country, I can get references. I haven't went away. The other guy raised his blank drill price to $40. I MADE HIM MORE MONEY. He is still cheaper than me, but he can't do what I can. HE HAS NEVER THROWN A BOWLING BALL, EVER! That is God's honest truth, see my profile.
Ultimately, this is a business. If you want the best, you have to pay more than not the best. Yes, I agree that there is gouging, and that is wrong. The consumer has the right and should choose who drills his/her equipment. But if you come to me you are choosing me and everything that goes with it, don't ask me to do it at the other guy's price, that's not fair to me, my employee, or my wife. I do this because in the end I love it. I love bowling. I could/did make more money outside of bowling. I'm not gonna give my life away, my experiences, skills etc are not gonna be free. I'm not gonna take your last dollar either, word of mouth is the best advertising, and thank the Lord, I get lots of that. I treat people right, I'm counting on the same from them.
sorry so long...
--------------------
Mike Austin
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
strikes4days@sbcglobal.net
Storm Pro Shop Staff Member
Vise Grips Staff Member
Onward through the Storm!!!!
Check out my web site - www.BirdDogBowling.com
Post by: jkiser01 on February 04, 2004, 04:30:06 PM
Sorry, just stating my opinion.. The deal I did with you was great and I have nothing but good things to say about the way you do business.
I just hate the pro shop operator that has the attitude that "he is doing me a favor" by drilling my ball. I am paying for this service, its not free.. Some of the comments from certain users here sound like that to me, but maybe I am wrong..
Its obvious that this is a 2 sided conversation with the pro shop operators here on one side of the table and us run of the mill bowlers on the other..
I realize the pro shop business is just that a business and the bottom line is the money.. I just believe there is a fine line between charging a "fair" amount for your service and charging to much..
I am not going to comment on this anymore.. The bottom line is this.. If someone wants to pay $100 to have a blank drill drilled and they are happy about that, so be it.. Everyone will be happy and thats great..
I will just stick with my guy and be happy with the job he does for me..
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If they only made a ball that would carry that d*mn 10 pin..
jkiser01
Edited on 2/4/2004 5:32 PM
Post by: AllStar23 on February 04, 2004, 04:37:01 PM
Just my 2 cents.
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If for every shot my cherry bomb carried a 7 pin id be rich..But im not..Whats that say?
Post by: JohnP on February 04, 2004, 10:32:53 PM
Post by: bamaster on February 04, 2004, 10:50:28 PM
How long does it take for him to drill it? Let's say it takes 30 minutes from putting your ball on the drill press to handing you the ball ready to throw. That's about $150/hour, which is about the same rate as a some lawyers.
If it takes longer than 30 minuts to punch a ball, he couldn't be THAT good. My ball diller (Mike Austin on this board) drilled two blank balls of mine yesterday in less time... and he has a mill press to get those ovals in my thumb slugs. Granted I finished them off because I prefer to do the beveling, but Mike is THAT good and his rates are about $30 for a blank drill without inserts.
Sounds like to me your pro shop operator is gouging you.
Tony
http://www.allBowling.com
Post by: TOON on February 05, 2004, 12:12:03 AM
Think about it folks. If you buy a ball off of the internet and save 50 bucks, you have to pay a MINIMUM of $15 for shipping. Then, you pay me $25 to drill it. $10 if you want grips and a slug. You save a whole $5 and you may have bought the wrong ball because I did not help you pick the right one for you or your game!. If you have warranty issues, you have to fight with the place you bought it from. Buy it from me and I would take care of it for you. It is a chance you take.
Some people have the notion that if it was bought on the net, it must be cheaper. WRONG!!!! I had a customer bring in a white dot. New. They paid $55 for it. $13 for shipping. $25 drilling. They did not come in to ask who much I could sell it for. Total for them was $38 more than I could have sold it to them for. They could have almost bought another ball!!!!
Also, don't forget the pro shop guy who knows you and your game and can make suggestions about which ball is right or wrong for you. He could save you a bunch of money!!! And I do belive you get what you pay for. I have seen some bad drillings from expensive shops because they just want you to be gone. They don't care about your hand or wrist hurting later or the next day or even the next week. I do belive that $75 is too much, but if he is that good.....
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TOON
The one, the original, TOON!
Edited on 2/5/2004 1:11 AM
Post by: HamPster on February 05, 2004, 01:32:17 AM
I'm not saying everybody here is stupid, I'm not saying everybody here whines and complains. I'm just saying that if you can get an Ultimate Inferno out the door for $220, you'd better be thanking your lucky stars. We still don't get all of that either, 15 bucks of that is tax, so we're really only getting $205. Ball cost is about $130 for those. Then we have to pay shipping on top of that. And for all the stuff it takes to drill a ball, it's EXPENSIVE.
I am SO sick of hagglers. Fine, take your stuff to K-Mart to get it screwed up so you can whine and complain about them and then suck in your breath at how much plugging costs, just so you can get the ball back and say the plug is a little off color. Or wait, here's a better one, get a urethane ball drilled for your 5 year old, and then demand your money back when the ball hooks backwards. Geez, the little guy uses the BUMPERS and hits each side about 6 times on the way down, you think it might change the track a little?
It's just sickening, and you have to either own a shop or work in one to understand. It is VERY expensive and time consuming to operate one of them. I'd break down the cost, but nobody would care anyway. I'll just say it's in no way worth the pain and headaches from cheap, ignorant trailer trash bowlers. We do excellent quality work with premium service for reasonable prices. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. There's something to be said for turning the other cheek, but we ran out of them a long time ago. Give someone an inch and they whine because you didn't offer them a mile. I'm not going to live on a street corner because of some bowler's ignorant misconceptions about what it takes to run a pro shop.
--------------------
The weekly signature series, by Hamster, presenting a mini-series of quotes from Shrek!
"You know how you tryin to give somebody the hint, but they won't leave, then there's that big awkward silence, you know . . . ."
Post by: RotoT on February 05, 2004, 02:13:39 AM
Got aa Duece for 200 after drill, tax, grips, and a slug. Getting a razorwire soon, told me 125 before slug and tax. drill nd grips free. Then again I am a repeat costumer.
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Big Tom N.
Post by: HamPster on February 05, 2004, 02:29:02 AM
--------------------
The weekly signature series, by Hamster, presenting a mini-series of quotes from Shrek!
"You know how you tryin to give somebody the hint, but they won't leave, then there's that big awkward silence, you know . . . ."
Post by: sheppy335 on February 05, 2004, 08:52:30 AM
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Oil is served Best with fingers!
Why does the 8 Pin laugh at me!
Sheppy
Post by: Ishmael on February 05, 2004, 09:01:21 AM
On the other hand, if I don't have any measurements and I want you to watch me bowl, then measure my hand, then drill based on PAP, then watch me bowl some more, then I'll gladly pay you $75.
Why should your rates be set in stone. They should match the effort required to do the work.
Also, including drilling in the price of the ball screws the customer because he is forced to pay taxes on drilling. Please stop this practice.
Post by: HamPster on February 05, 2004, 11:12:10 AM
You've gotta pay tax on the drilling one way or another. It all goes into one lump sum for a total that must be taxed. Like WTBD said, we don't gouge our customers. We're doing the best we can to remain open for all these bowlers that want something for nothing. Two things that go into drilling are labor, and costs. Drilling a ball isn't a cake walk. I'm not gonna lie and say it's hard, but you sure as hell have to know what you're doing and pay attention. The more I think about it, the more I think that $35 bucks is even a little cheap.
The time it takes to drill a ball is dependant on the assumption that there is NO ONE else in the shop wanting ANYTHING. 30 minutes can turn into an hour and a half if you have people out there wanting things, especially if you get one of those people that ask you about every single frickin ball on the wall. And if you tell them you're busy, they just walk out the door. It's a lose/lose situation, and you guys don't seem to be getting the picture. It's not Walmart where you can walk in, grab something, take it to one of the million checkers working and walk right out.
Finally, we don't get supplier prices. High performance stuff is $130, period. Infernos, X-Factors, Throttles, etc. They're $230 out the door if you get absolutely everything. Gouging would be $300. We charge a fair price and what we deem necessary to keep the shop open so people can keep whining at us.
--------------------
The weekly signature series, by Hamster, presenting a mini-series of quotes from Shrek!
"You know how you tryin to give somebody the hint, but they won't leave, then there's that big awkward silence, you know . . . ."
Post by: Ishmael on February 05, 2004, 04:35:21 PM
quote:
Why don't you open a shop, try your strategic decision
I work for a small business. It doesn't matter what we do, but we provide products and services just like a pro shop. We don't charge one flat fee for everything we do. We charge based on the amount of work required to do the job. I don't understand how this can be so complicated. It's fair for the business and it's fair for the customer.
quote:
If you are complaining about the sales tax, I can only imagine how much you would bicker over the amount of time and the final charge to drill one of your balls. It is simply too confusing to do that.
Actually, I don't bicker at all. I have a great driller that charges fair prices. Price varies a little depending on the situation, but typically between $25 and $40 including grips whether I buy the ball from him or bring it in. Nothing to bicker about there.
quote:
You've gotta pay tax on the drilling one way or another
No you don't. Labor is not taxable. Granted it's only a couple bucks, but why should I pay a couple extra dollars to the government that I don't have to.
Post by: HamPster on February 05, 2004, 04:52:57 PM
--------------------
The weekly signature series, by Hamster, presenting a mini-series of quotes from Shrek!
"You know how you tryin to give somebody the hint, but they won't leave, then there's that big awkward silence, you know . . . ."
Post by: BadShot on February 05, 2004, 05:08:19 PM
i think there are some states where you can split the labor and materials, and only have to charge sales tax on the materials . . . maybe . . .
think how hard that would be to apply . . . how much of a quarter pounder with cheese is materials -v- labor????
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That which does not kill me makes me stronger . . .
Post by: HamPster on February 05, 2004, 06:47:15 PM
--------------------
The weekly signature series, by Hamster, presenting a mini-series of quotes from Shrek!
"You know how you tryin to give somebody the hint, but they won't leave, then there's that big awkward silence, you know . . . ."
Post by: Ishmael on February 06, 2004, 08:40:43 AM
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 06, 2004, 10:23:25 AM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: SHEET on February 06, 2004, 01:51:13 PM
--------------------
"I'll BOWL ANYBODY!!!!!!"
Make sure the $$$ is enough and all there...
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 06, 2004, 10:56:30 PM
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: HamPster on February 06, 2004, 11:06:09 PM
--------------------
The weekly signature series, by Hamster, presenting a mini-series of quotes from Shrek!
"You know how you tryin to give somebody the hint, but they won't leave, then there's that big awkward silence, you know . . . ."
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 06, 2004, 11:16:25 PM
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 07, 2004, 07:53:39 AM
Seems we were distracted from the topic .. $75 to drill a ball even with the inserts (where they have to be glued and cut)is TOO MUCH .. I will SUGGEST to ANY BOWLER, that pays this much, get in touch with me and I will direct them to OTHER PROFESSIONAL DRILLERS that they should consider!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: JoeBowler on February 07, 2004, 08:11:10 AM
Banks have always overcharged people for the services they provide and the bank managers are the worst. They squeeze money out of the customers and the lower level employees while taking large bonuses for themselves.
I submit that you should give back half of what your earned thru the years because it is obvious that you were grossly overpaid.
Post by: JoeBowler on February 07, 2004, 08:14:54 AM
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 07, 2004, 08:18:11 AM
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 07, 2004, 08:21:59 AM
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: JoeBowler on February 07, 2004, 08:49:09 AM
YOU were probably MAKING over $50 an hour plus BENEFITS when you RETIRED, with a PENSION, with NO capital outlay on your part. I’m willing to bet that few PROSHOP owners CLEAR $20/hour with NO benefits and YOU think they are OVERPAID.
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 07, 2004, 09:28:53 AM
Now .. if you want to know where YOU can get it cheaper .. drop me a line and I'll email the info to you .. but then again .. you claim to be smart enough to do the research ON YOUR OWN!
Any questions you have of me .. please drop me a line .. I' don't need to bother others .. My opinion on this subject is that $75 is TOO MUCH FOR DRILLING (even with the inserts provided)!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Brickguy221 on February 07, 2004, 12:58:33 PM
--------------------
Don't wear your self out cutting wood with an axe...Use a Buzzsaw
Edited on 2/7/2004 1:56 PM
Post by: SrKegler on February 07, 2004, 06:46:40 PM
On the conservative side, a COMPETENT driller spends about 1-2 hours with a new customer. Maybe watch him bowl a few games, figure his PAP coordinates, discuss the lane conditions he wants to bowl on, what he wants the ball to do, etc.
Now if I take my car into the shop, they have a large sign that states their labor rates is $75 an hour. Do I quibble, and say that is just too much? Guess I could take it to one of the shade tree mechanics who only charges $40 an hour.
I go for haircuts, cost is $12, takes about 15 minutes. Around $48.00 an hour.
Plumbers in my area want $50 and hour, electricians run $60 an hour.
The point is, each craft, and Yes BALL DRILLING is a CRAFT.
In this case, $75 less $10 for a slug, 2 grips @ $5 leaves the driller a net of $55.
His prices seem right in line with all the other crafts. If anything, they should charge more just for all the BS they have to put up with.
Bottom line, if you think the price is too high, go someplace else.
Pay for what you get, just make sure you get what you pay for.
--------------------
~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel
Old bowlers never die, we just don't score as often
Post by: Brickguy221 on February 07, 2004, 07:19:48 PM
For first class work and accuracy you have a good point, but for the accuracy I and others get without going on line you don't have a good point. If you had the local driller where I live drill your ball one time, you would understand what I am talking about.
--------------------
Don't wear your self out cutting wood with an axe...Use a Buzzsaw
Post by: SrKegler on February 07, 2004, 07:35:59 PM
Believe me, I know what you are experiencing. A good driller is extremely hard to find. I could care less what mine charges, I know it will be a perfect fit. Only problem I have is he is so good, there is a waiting list to get in to see him. Normally I just have to drop the equipment off, and he works on it in his spare time in between jobs and pick the equipment up the next week.
The point I was trying to get across was people arbitraily setting a value on the drillers services and stating what should be charged.
--------------------
~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel
Old bowlers never die, we just don't score as often
Post by: a_ak57 on February 07, 2004, 08:09:50 PM
But on the other hand, some dumb employee who works there sometimes, I don't like. He seems to have no knowledge of anything, and gives nothing at all except drilling. Whenever I get a ball drilled, I just wait until Skip is there. I remember, when I got my first reactive ball drilled, the guy didn't even explain the difference between conventional and finger-tip, I went with finger tip, and then had to shell out more money to get it plugged and redrilled. But when Skip was there.
I'm not even going to bother with the other guy anymore, when for the same price, I get help, intelligence, and inserts from Skip.
Obviously I seem to have both sides, the knowledgable, helpful good driller, and the kind who knows nothing, and just wants money.
Post by: Brickguy221 on February 07, 2004, 09:04:06 PM
What's happened to all the good drillers? For the ones where I live, on the one 2 years ago, his wife filed for divorce and then he had some heart problems and had to quit. Then there was one that died from cancer. Another simply got "burned out" drilling and went elsewhere even though he had more business than he could handle and he was making plenty of money. Another got into financial trouble and "skipped" the country. And another went to work for Ebonite. And there was one more that simply got old and retired.
People took their place, but they can't drill. Why? Darned if I know. Have any of the rest of you experienced this in your areas? I know there is a bunch of learning to be a quality Pro Shop operator and an exceptional one like Sr. Kegler is fortunate to have, but what is the problem with all the new guys trying to drill and they can't. I can lay a ball out and I'm sure I can drill a ball accurate with the modern digital drilling machines of today, but these new guys can't even do that..........Does anyone have an explanation?
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Don't wear your self out cutting wood with an axe...Use a Buzzsaw
Post by: HamPster on February 07, 2004, 09:31:59 PM
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The weekly signature series, by Hamster, presenting a mini-series of quotes from Shrek!
"You know how you tryin to give somebody the hint, but they won't leave, then there's that big awkward silence, you know . . . ."
Post by: SrKegler on February 07, 2004, 09:51:37 PM
Where have all the good drillers gone? Read some of the prior posts. I don't understand why a bowler will spend hours on the internet trying to save $10-$20 and then blow $30 a nite on brackets and booze.
Drilling balls is an art, not something you can learn from a book. A good driller, like OLI, can look at your hand, check your current pitches, and know exactly what is needed to make your ball fit like a glove.
A good driller can watch you throw a few balls and tell you what ball and drillings you need to conquer a certain condition.
I would bet 90% of the bowlers on this site experience thumb problems, finger problems, etc. Yet we still complain about how much we have to pay to get something done right.
Of course, its a mute point, in a few years pro-shops will be a thing of the past. We can all just order our equipment off the web, those guys are great and can do all this diagnosis over the phone.
Look at all the money we will save.
Why anyone in their right mind would want to pursue this as a career is beyond me.
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~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel
Old bowlers never die, we just don't score as often
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 07, 2004, 10:26:46 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: SrKegler on February 07, 2004, 10:44:12 PM
I have seen people come in to get fitted, all the adjustments are made. We then ask them how it feels. Of course the answer is great. However, once they start rolling the ball off their hands we see the fingers aren't coming out straight, needs a little more side pitch.
Look at all the posts we have about pitches and how to determine what is right or wrong. Luckylefty has done a great job educating us. Sure must be a bunch of inept drillers out there, otherwise everyone would just keep putting the same span and pitches in every ball.
My last set of changes were about 6 months ago. Right now I'm due to have some more reverse put into the fingers, starting to get burns on the pads of my fingers.
Question everyone has to ask themselves is, are you sure what you have is right. Most people have had the wrong drills for so long that it feels natural.
Good point though, next time I take the car into the garage, I'm sure not paying $75 an hour labor rates. $37.50 is what it is worth. After all, all those guys have to do is read a computer printout.
CYA in May, remember, I'm bigger & younger than you
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~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel
Old bowlers never die, we just don't score as often
Post by: Mike Austin on February 08, 2004, 03:56:11 PM
Joe F, the reason that you haven't gotten any drillers to admit that $75.00 is too high is because any GOOD driller would like to be making that much. Unlike what Bamaster said, I charge $50 for drilling. I give enough service that it is worth it. GOOD drillers do that, we can let our work speak for itself. Unknowledgeable, less talented drillers have to lower their price, because they can't do as good a job, $50.00 would be too much for their lesser service. You get what you pay for. The GOOD drillers know what is involved in giving good service, the cost of tools, maintenance on said tools and equipment, etc....
What happens when I suggest a ball for a customer and it is the wrong ball, period. I eat it. The ball comes back to me and I replace the ball with one that will perform to expectations, given that Isuggested this ball. It was my mistake. Luckily, that doesn't happen often. A lesser pro shop would not do that. That guarantee is part of why I can charge more. Better service.
Somebody said that I said something about the Tour truck, which I haven't, but I will. Last year it was $25.00 for drilling, milling holes was more. They don't keep anybodies specs, you have to know your own. They don't finish off the holes, you do. They don't glue in the grips, you do. If they make a mistake, too bad, usually. They have one guy marking off lines, and 1-3 guys mashing holes. Very streamlined, but they drill alot of balls. They have a monoply, you can't compete with them, too expensive. You also couldn't make a living trying to. I'm lucky, I know my own specs and marked off my own lines. They don't give much advice on layouts, surfaces, anything, just mash holes, they don't have time. The ball company reps do the other things, but you have to ask for their advice, and their staff players come first. I'm lucky again, I know most of those guys, so I can do ball talk pretty easily.
Somebody mentioned that you gotta be able to hit the lines.... If you don't mark off the lanes the same way every time, doesn't matter if you hit them or not. Ball drilling requires more than most of you understand to do an excellent job. I see work from some so called "pro" shop operators all the time. I know who did the work just by looking at it. I also DON'T see balls from a couple other shops very often, they do good work.
Unfortunately there are two large majorities in this industry. The majority of bowlers don't want to pay for quality work, they mostly started off with crappy work and therefore don't want to pay for better. The large majority of pro shops do shabby work, and have to lower their price in order to make sales. A guy such as myself is seen as the bad guy, because I'm trying to make money. I know more, do more, experienced more, provide more, therefore I can charge more. That's business, supply and demand. It has/is very hard to stick to my guns and charge my price to keep new people from going down the street. BUT, the people that really want MY service will pay for it, those that don't won't, they will get what they pay for. You don't see any pro shop owners drive around in Suburbans or Escalades too often. If you do, their wife makes good money, or their family has money more times than not.
Just like you say you did Joe Falco, I work hard, very hard, seven days a week. I want to be compensated for my effort and expertise. Why am I a bad person because I'm trying to provide for my family and have some of the decent things in life?
Maybe the knowledgeable people on here should do reviews for FREE. Maybe I should get paid for everytime somebody clicks on my review. I like that. Then if you don't want to read a knowledgeable review, you get to read a crappy one for free. Yeah, that's the ticket!!!!! LOL!!!!
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Mike Austin
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
strikes4days@sbcglobal.net
Storm Pro Shop Staff Member
Vise Grips Staff Member
Onward through the Storm!!!!
Check out my web site - www.BirdDogBowling.com