Post by: charlest on December 11, 2005, 05:57:58 AM
How does watching another person throw a ball, drilled for him, on his conditions, with his own release help you understand what the ball will do for you, with your release, drilled your way, for your conditions?
I really want to understand. really!
On another thread, someone said he liked what he saw when Wes Mallott threw the Columbia Action, admittedly a very good ball. But he fiend who wanted one had not seen Wes throw it. My reply was:
As far as I can see, Wes Mallott could throw a ball of snot and make us want it, if seeing his throwing a ball would in any way shape or form make it right for any reason. The idea is a player of Wes's abilities can make any ball look good.
Hell's bells, I threw a 289 a week ago; film any of those strikes and would you buy the Bullsh*t Whizbang I was throwing?
'Splain it to me, somebody, anybody!
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Addendum:
As of 10 PM, 12/12, so far, most people agree with me - it's hard enough to get someone to explain their delivery, no less get them to make a video to help your ball buying decision. I don't want to close this discussion yet, as it has potential. I do want to say that my major point is that people shouldn't let their emotions get the best of them by watching a video of a ball. There's tons of essential information lacking in just the video; it should be the basis of a decision to buy a ball.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Edited on 12/11/2005 9:15 PM
Post by: scotts33 on December 11, 2005, 02:03:12 PM
If, I do a video of me using a Blue Dot on super dry conditions rolling 20 at the arrows to 8 at the break point into the pocket and shread the rack. Does that mean everybody should go out and buy a Blue Dot?
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Scott
Post by: Tweener92 on December 11, 2005, 02:22:59 PM
Tim
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Member of The Revolution since 2005
Post by: charlest on December 11, 2005, 04:01:00 PM
But what good does it do in the decision making process?
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Post by: kingpin268 on December 11, 2005, 04:09:46 PM
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Bully Your Competition
Post by: Luke909 on December 11, 2005, 04:16:23 PM
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Luke
Post by: Tweener92 on December 11, 2005, 05:03:49 PM
quote:
So far we have a "a visual is nice" & "I like to watch".
But what good does it do in the decision making process?
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Ok I'll elaborate. If a ball strikes when someone else is throwing it, it has no bearing on if I will buy it. The "visual" that I am looking for is plain and simple ball reaction on the lanes. I.E is it skid flippy, even arcing, etc. I look for things that will give me a reaction that I think will work best for me. Thus resulting in my looking for vids of people similar in style to myself. I consider it a kind of research. It's my way of "test driving" the ball before purchase.
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Member of The Revolution since 2005
Edited on 12/11/2005 5:54 PM
Post by: novawagonmaster on December 11, 2005, 05:33:08 PM
I buy them all anyway, so the vids are not influential.
I am a ball junkie.
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Jon (in Ohio)
CHROME WON'T GET YOU HOME!
F.O.S. Proud Saw user...see profile.
Post by: Tony Banks on December 11, 2005, 05:50:21 PM
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Look for me in the upcoming PBA Tour! I'll be the guy in the back row with the foam finger singing "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" during the 7th inning.
Post by: charlest on December 11, 2005, 06:00:55 PM
quote:
Watching a ball roll down the lane, gives somewhat of an idea (to an experienced bowler) what to expect when he/she 'potentially' gets the chance to throw it.
Its easy to identify a big hooking particle ball, compared to a skid/snap pearlised ball, but until you are able to 'VISUALISE' how the ball is going to react with your shot, its just guess work from the get go. Watching others throw the ball does START the 'building block' to knowing what gear to buy next, which helps the process along.
...
Ultimately, you can never know until you throw, but vids help the selection process!!!
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www.bowlingkingdom.com the NEW bowling site on the block!!!
www.visionarybowling.com Scared? You should be
Tonx,
I respect your expertise, but my point remains:
Someone else throwing it, with an unknown drill on an unknown lane condition doesn't begin to tell you the least iota about the ball.
Tweener92,
Any ball, be it a pearl resin or a solid particle, can take on any ball path and you wouldn't know what it really means to you.
All it can do is fuel your desire because you saw an explosive strike or it followed a ball path you like.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Edited on 12/11/2005 6:59 PM
Post by: a_ak57 on December 11, 2005, 06:13:42 PM
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- Andy
Post by: Tweener92 on December 11, 2005, 06:57:34 PM
That's why it is important that the person giving us the video also provide us with the important info about themselves, lane condition and information on the ball as well. I have a friend that throws the ball in a quite similar fashion as I so when I want to get a read on how a ball perfroms that I don't have, I can watch him and get a pretty good idea of how a particular drill on a particular ball will behave. I can get a similar read from a video as long as the right info is procvided. Now if a cranker is throwing the ball in a video, it will serve me no purpose at all.
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Member of The Revolution since 2005
Post by: Bluff on December 11, 2005, 07:12:34 PM
quote:
Ok, call me an idiot or whatever you like, but I just don't get it.
How does watching another person throw a ball, drilled for him, on his conditions, with his own release help you understand what the ball will do for you, with your release, drilled your way, for your conditions?
I really want to understand. really!
On another thread, someone said he liked what he saw when Wes Mallott threw the Columbia Action, admittedly a very good ball. But he fiend who wanted one had not seen Wes throw it. My reply was:
As far as I can see, Wes Mallott could throw a ball of snot and make us want it, if seeing his throwing a ball would in any way shape or form make it right for any reason. The idea is a player of Wes's abilities can make any ball look good.
Hell's bells, I threw a 289 a week ago; film any of those strikes and would you buy the Bullsh*t Whizbang I was throwing?
'Splain it to me, somebody, anybody!
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Is Like sex! doing a hot chick don't mean you going to get a good laid! But if is good looking one you feel like you scored bigger. Which you perffer?
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Honestly I got a lot of balls. No NOT BOWLING BALLS! Bowling with 99.99% Luck and 0.01 % skill!!
Post by: pin-chaser on December 11, 2005, 07:21:36 PM
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Bowling Tips and Articles at: www.bowlingknowledge.com
IRC: Internet Relay Chat on Dalnet #striketalk. 24x7x365
Post by: DukeHarding on December 11, 2005, 07:45:10 PM
I've always wondered the same thing.
Especially, the lane condition being bowled on.
I've bowled in a lot of houses, over the past 50 years.
If you ask the lane man in most houses, they don't know the pattern.
They just run the machine...Or they tell you: "We oil 35 feet"....I think it's a pat answer.
I'll watch a video to connect, a BR member to see his bowling style (just curiosity)...Ball videos and (most) ball reviews are meaningless.
Videos of bowlers rolling a ball are good for analyzing their games...that's about it...Pick out some basic faults the bowler has.
My .02
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Duke Harding
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bowling Coaches Web Site Link (http://"http://www.bowlingcoach.com/")
"Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty.
Anyone who keeps learning stays young.
The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young." -- Henry Ford
Post by: charlest on December 11, 2005, 08:21:44 PM
quote:
Charlest,
That's why it is important that the person giving us the video also provide us with the important info about themselves, lane condition and information on the ball as well. I have a friend that throws the ball in a quite similar fashion as I so when I want to get a read on how a ball perfroms that I don't have, I can watch him and get a pretty good idea of how a particular drill on a particular ball will behave. I can get a similar read from a video as long as the right info is procvided. Now if a cranker is throwing the ball in a video, it will serve me no purpose at all.
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Member of The Revolution since 2005
That is 100% understandable. However, it's more than hard enough to get anyone to actually describe their bowling style with some details (granted many just do not know yet are trying to be helpful) inside the ball review or in their profile. To get someone to provide that description PLUS be able to show a video - almost mathematically impossible.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Post by: azguy on December 12, 2005, 05:48:29 AM
I read the specs, see if someone locally has it, watch them, and think if I could use the ball, but seeing a video, not really knowing the lane conditions, that does me no good what so ever. If it helps someone else, great ! Personally, I just don't watch them.
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AZ Guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
www.rlbowlerspro.com
Sleep is over rated.
Post by: Ragnar on December 12, 2005, 10:43:32 AM
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Will Jesus bring the pork chops?
Post by: charlest on December 12, 2005, 02:22:28 PM
quote:quote:
More than single videos, I like the posts where the same person, on the same lane, throws a variety of balls, so that you can see the differences between them. If that person is throwing a ball I already have, then I can gauge the differences in reaction to the other balls, if I were to decide I'm looking for something else in my arsenal.
And this, in my opinion, is the real key to the value of the N_Smith/BrunsNick videos, as he's using the same style, on the same lanes, in most of his vid. Thus, you can get a rough idea of the potentials of the various balls in relation to each other. Then, making a comparison to a similar ball-thrown, you can get an idea of how it might roll for you.
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"I slept fine; I'm a goliath!"
Norm Duke
granted.
But most people here Do not do and do not ask for those comparisons, and therein lies part of a MAJOR problem, as I indicated above.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Post by: BrunsNick on December 12, 2005, 02:29:08 PM
It is entertainment, nothing more.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: charlest on December 12, 2005, 02:35:01 PM
quote:
Part of a MAJOR problem? Get a grip.
It is entertainment, nothing more.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Entertainment, I can live with, as an explanation.
The MAJOR problem is most people look at you or other good bowlers throwing these balls in those videos, and all they see are strikes and all it does is make them feel they want the ball, which is DEAD FREAKING WRONG, because it's for the wrong reason. That is the MAJOR PROBLEM, that I see.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Post by: icetink on December 12, 2005, 02:42:10 PM
In regards to making people want to buy a ball, people generally buy a ball because of a reaction they need or a spot to fill in their collection of balls. It's much easier to say 'I want that ball' after watching someone, anyone, throw it in comparison to other balls rather than looking at the various numbers put out by a company.
If comparison videos are not so useful, then how much more useful are the numbers that companies shoot out at us (ie. hook rating, length, breakpoint angle, radius of gyration, differentials, spin times)?
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Dino
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Track
Edited on 12/12/2005 3:32 PM
Post by: Tweener92 on December 12, 2005, 02:42:20 PM
quote:quote:
Part of a MAJOR problem? Get a grip.
It is entertainment, nothing more.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Entertainment, I can live with, as an explanation.
The MAJOR problem is most people look at you or other good bowlers throwing these balls in those videos, and all they see are strikes and all it does is make them feel they want the ball, which is DEAD FREAKING WRONG, because it's for the wrong reason. That is the MAJOR PROBLEM, that I see.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
If they are lacking the common sense to realize the difference in ability between Joe Bowler and a "good bowler" then that is on them.
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Member of The Revolution since 2005
Post by: BrunsNick on December 12, 2005, 02:44:31 PM
Some folks are looking for something. Some are looking for smooth transition, some are looking for a strong jerk off the dry. The videos can show that, regardless if I throw the ball different than 75% of the folks out there.
My videos give people an idea, as well as a laugh sometimes. That is why I continue to make them.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: KDawg77 on December 12, 2005, 02:48:44 PM
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Oh splendid! This calls for a sexy party!
Post by: icetink on December 12, 2005, 02:53:19 PM
I believe comparison videos (especially of balls drilled the same) regardless of who is throwing them, gives buyers a much better idea of how a ball will react compared to reading numbers from a website.
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Dino
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Track
Post by: stanski on December 12, 2005, 02:55:06 PM
Everyone needs to stop worrying about the damn technical mumbo jumbo and get back to throwing the ball. It really isn't that hard to figure out how many balls you need at your level and when to use the right ball. Everyone is so caught up in "I moved the drilling one inch and wow, it reacts 1 board weaker than my other ball" that they forget that the person that wins usually wins not because they match up balls well, but because they are just plain better.
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stanski
Post by: Sir Bowl-A-Lot on December 12, 2005, 03:44:36 PM
You and the others are nice enough to take the time out of your busy schedules to bring us these videos for entertainment. If you buy a ball based solely on what you see in a video or on TV, then you shouldn't be buying your own equipment. You obviously do not know enough about the various characteristics that go into choosing the right ball for YOUR style and YOUR lane conditions. I would like to think that most folks would have enough sense to distinguish this.
Nick, Ryan, and everyone else who posts their videos on here:
Thank you for what you bring to the bowling community and I hope this doesn't discourage you from continuing to provide us with your hard work in the future.
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Trusted BallReviews.com member since 3/31/2003 (since 2001 under the now late user name buzzsaw16...back when I used nothing but Lane#1)
Post by: splendorlex on December 12, 2005, 04:01:47 PM
Post by: a_ak57 on December 12, 2005, 04:50:12 PM
quote:
What I wanna know is, where are all the low rev stroker vids? Seems that all I ever see are crankers!!
Probably due to them being self conscious. And of the stroker vids I've seen on here, most of them are trying to play a deeper line than they should to make it look like they can hook it more...
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- Andy
Post by: RSalas on December 12, 2005, 04:56:59 PM
quote:
Everyone needs to stop worrying about the damn technical mumbo jumbo and get back to throwing the ball.
But where's the fun in that?
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...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "Poöter Boöf" before that...
Post by: splendorlex on December 12, 2005, 05:05:34 PM
Post by: charlest on December 12, 2005, 05:33:41 PM
quote:
If you can't see the ball reaction shape difference in the latest videos (Smokin, Rampage, Vapor) then THAT is a MAJOR problem.
Some folks are looking for something. Some are looking for smooth transition, some are looking for a strong jerk off the dry. The videos can show that, regardless if I throw the ball different than 75% of the folks out there.
My videos give people an idea, as well as a laugh sometimes. That is why I continue to make them.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Your videos are nothing to laugh at, except the commentary, which are meant for laughs. If people compare one to the the next, that (and anyone else, like tenpinspro in the Track section, who does a similar performance) is the ONLY good thing I have seen in all these videos online. That, Nick, is a public service!
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Post by: Easy10pins on December 16, 2005, 08:15:17 PM
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: a_ak57 on December 16, 2005, 08:58:31 PM
quote:
One thing I liked about the videos on the Lane 1 web site was you could watch the same guy throw all the balls and see the difference. It was obvious watching those videos that he really had a hard time with the high particle Super Carbide Bomb. Never looked comfortable with it. He was able to play about 5 different lines with the Tsunami on the same lane at the same time. That ball was much more versatile than many of the others.
Plus he always started out showing you the layout of the ball and the lane conditions. Some of the best done vids I have seen and very helpful in comparing the balls in my mind.
Mike makes good videos. The only complaint I have is that in the videos, he doesn't say when he is throwing it with no thumb (some of the shots he does). I guess he wants people to think that the balls are that amazing that they can increase your rev rate and allow you to swing the lane with ease...
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- Andy