Author Topic: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions? (Read 1604 times)

mumzie · « **on:** May 13, 2008, 08:16:05 AM »

I've bowled with this one guy for several years. He's like me - decent game, but NO speed. We bowl a 2nd shift league in a wood house, and the lanes can get a bit toasty.

Each year, now, he buys one ball. It's always an extremely hooking ball, with a dull surface. He usually doesn't bowl too well the first game, has a great start to the second game, then when transition hits, wham. His carry goes into the toilet. Of course, there's usually wild over/under most of the night.

It's extremely obvious to me that he's burning up his oil on the lane, and the ball is rolling out. He argues it every week. "I threw it bad." "I need to get more inside." "I need more speed".

He's made the assumption that he's bowling with me next year, but it won't work - I can't keep any other teammates, because they can't handle it...

I told him that if he wanted to bowl with me next year, he had to buy a weak ball and use it - his response - "I'll just order another one of these and polish it up".

Any way - how can you explain roll out of the strong stuff to a true old school bowler, who was extremely good 30-40 years ago?
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shelley · « **Reply #1 on:** May 13, 2008, 04:25:38 PM »

Maybe this won't work, but what about those extreme hook monsters of yesteryear that are sitting on the floor of his closet? Instead of "buying another of these and polishing it up", take one of those guys and polish it up. Since they're older balls with more games on them, they may not be the same extreme hook monsters they once were (even if they're only a few years old). Might work.

Or explain a weaker ball as something to prevent him from needing more speed or needing to move inside. If he can't play deeper or isn't moving quickly enough, simply explain it as a way to avoid playing like that. Forget the whole concept of roll-out, just stick with the concept of adjustments. Today's game involves picking the right equipment as an adjustment just as much as moving around on the lane.

SH

mumzie · « **Reply #2 on:** May 13, 2008, 04:28:53 PM »

Great idea, Shelley - but he just dropped to 14 pounds this year. Right now, he's only got one ball he can throw...

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janderson · « **Reply #3 on:** May 13, 2008, 04:34:06 PM »

Rollout is like a car tire's contact with the road when the car is coasting. If you encounter an obstacle you want to drive through, you're limited to the energy of the car's motion as it exists. If it bounces back off the obstacle, that's it, it's done.

Before rollout occurs is like a car "burning out"/spinning/smoking its tires as the throttle is applied. Now when you encounter the obstacle, you may bounce back, but there's more energy there as the throttle is still being applied, it will continue to attempt drive forward through the obstacle.
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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2008, 03:16:48 AM »

Roll-out is a complex thing - it is not only the result of too much friction between the ball and the lane, the player's style as well as the drilling also play a good part on it.

Just an idea for argumentation: What is the most effective phase of the ball on the lane? It is the point when the ball ends hooking and starts rolling forward, when the core delivers its stored energy from the release into a powerful forward roll. This is, ideally, the moment when the ball should enter the pocket, because it is has maximum momentum.

That in mind, you can play through the alternatives that would prevent this ideal shot result. Too much friction, through little oil and/or an aggressive coverstock or too much surface, may have the ball break too early and finishing its hook prematurely, so that it loses power on its way to the pins. The drilling can also have a strong effect - drilled too strong, a ball's core can end up in its stable end position (which means the ball's roll phase) too early, so that even a ball that matches the lane condition properly can still not "work" effectively. Then add the human factor of speed, revs and lines, and you have a huge field of factors that can cause or prevent roll-out.

My suggestion: always take a slightly weaker ball or setup. You can still take out speed or play the ball with more authority and with some hand position tricks - but when the ball package is basically too strong, you will only fight with it because it will hardly "funcion" and tend to roll out, whatever you do with it.

Hope this helps. It is tough to explain - but in a nutshell, a strong or wide hooking ball does not mean good results

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charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2008, 07:40:41 AM »

Based on what you've said, I doubt if this fellow is going to understand what you're saying, because he can't see what's happening to his balls anyway.

Energy-wise, roll-out is when all the kinetic or potential energy has been expended the ball is rolling end over end and there's only sheer luck (and ball speed) left over. The last best time for the ball hitting the pins is during "hook-out", which is just before the ball rolls out. Hook out is when the ball is still on the bowler's track, maybe the last one or two tracks before it reaches total stabilization.

One of the signs is ball drive and where the ball's position is when it gets in the back row, just before it rolls off the pin deck. If it hits during hook-out, the ball is still driving. You see this when it takes out the 8 pin (for right handed bowlers), or worse, if you leave a 9 pin. If it hits the pocket during roll-out, you see the ball deflect over the 9 pin spot, and its trajectory is towards the 10 pin.
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livespive · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2008, 07:58:52 AM »

quote:
Maybe this won't work, but what about those extreme hook monsters of yesteryear that are sitting on the floor of his closet? Instead of "buying another of these and polishing it up", take one of those guys and polish it up. Since they're older balls with more games on them, they may not be the same extreme hook monsters they once were (even if they're only a few years old). Might work.

Or explain a weaker ball as something to prevent him from needing more speed or needing to move inside. If he can't play deeper or isn't moving quickly enough, simply explain it as a way to avoid playing like that. Forget the whole concept of roll-out, just stick with the concept of adjustments. Today's game involves picking the right equipment as an adjustment just as much as moving around on the lane.

SH

I agree with Shelly's tactic,
If he knows that he has to move inside, and speed up, then he might be able to associate the why. Tell him that the reason that he has to move inside is because his ball needs more oil.
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mumzie · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2008, 01:32:48 PM »

A little more info:
I was talking with another teammate from last year about the situation last night. He said that he regretted bowling with us this past year - and ONLY because of our teammate burning up the shot for everyone else. Moving inside with the strong, sanded equipment isn't going to do much good with that.

Also - as a side note - on the second shift on the old wood, there sometimes ISN'T much deeper to go!
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livespive · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2008, 01:48:26 PM »

Ahhhhh,

So this is also a:

"Dude, learn how to play the lane because you are messing up our shots."

Type question.

Tell him to think of it like a dragster smoking his tires.
Also tell im that he is ruining it for everone else.

YOu are going to have to be up front with him.
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Juggernaut · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2008, 02:08:36 PM »

Tell him that the new balls are akin to driving a high performance car. They need more fuel than the lower performance cars.

Also tell him that the "fuel" that the ball uses is the strength of his release and that it just isn't strong enough to keep the "engine" running, that his ball is "running out of gas" before it gets him home. When it runs out of "fuel", it just quits working and rolls to a stop, dead on arrival so to speak.
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Author Topic: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions? (Read 1604 times)

mumzie

Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions?

shelley

Re: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions?

mumzie

Re: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions?

janderson

Re: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions?

dizzyfugu

Re: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions?

charlest

Re: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions?

livespive

Re: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions?

mumzie

Re: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions?

livespive

Re: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions?

Juggernaut

Re: Explaining Rolling out to a teammate - any suggestions?