Too many guys throwing super aggressive shells right out of the gate, and playing all over the lane.  Most tournaments use higher volumes of oil every year, but it makes no difference.  Look at the guy on TV.  Just a couple of guys, and they can blow up the pattern during an hour of practice.  The balls have to be tamed down, so that a more moderate amount of oil will hold up.  The other side of the equation is that there is so much oil initially that plastic and urethane balls carry too much down the lane and make the back ends un playable for those balls.

Game would be better if we outlawed resin surfaces and mandated that urethane not be dulled below 2000 grit.  This is not about scoring, but about the physical integrity of the lane surface, which simply cannot remain playable with the ball surfaces currently in use.   

To go along with this, think about what balls are marketed these days to regular league bowlers-the most hooking in the line with every new release. And to be honest, most every bowler uses too much ball even in league, I myself have been caught up in this web.

It will always seem the lanes have less and less when the balls get stronger and stronger, and the bolwers never buy mid to low level stuff. Add to this even these range balls get stronger and stronger every year.

I bolwed a tournament over the weekend that has been running the last month, and the  lower end of my arsenal- Solaris Blackout, Euphoria and Desperado were all still too much ball for the shot they put out, on wood lanes no less. I have yet to figure out why tournaments continually put less out for patterns then wonder why noone shows up the following year...and its getting to be every tournament I go to...

Bowlers will always have something to complain about.

It is funny how we used to want to bowl second shift at tournaments to let the lanes break down so you could generate more hook.

Even at nationals you wanted the late team squad after they were broken down. It was the squad most of the scores were shot on.

Now everyone wants fresh oil for every squad.

Largely because the balls strip oil off the lane and they will destroy a lane pattern in short order.

When I was helping in the proshop, bowlers would buy a new hook monster, then complain to the center management that there wasn't enough oil to use it.

You put more oil out and get complaints from others that you are forcing them to buy new equipment because they can't get the old to hook.

Some of this wouldn't be a problem if bowlers would play the lanes where the shot is. But the THS allows everyone to play their favorite line for a while. But then it blows up and becomes nearly unplayable for everybody.

Until we stop the balls from altering the playing surface and/or find a lane surface that doesn't require lane conditioners we are stuck.

I subbed in state tournament this weekend for a friend who has been really sick. Shot 710 in team. Happy as hell with that. Bowled doubles and singles today. Not so good. Shot 560 in doubles and lucky enough to shoot 570 in singles. Had nothing weak enough to play the lanes. Pulled out the weakest ball I had and tried to take all my hand out of it. Still covering most of the lane.

Kyle,

I bowled the 700 tournament on Saturday night and didn't have anything weak enough.  Funny part is I shot fairly good two weekends ago for doubles, singles and team.  Mental note bowl the Friday evening or Saturday or Sunday morning early shift in the future. 

Poor bowling aside their were 9 vehicles Saturday night that had windows knocked out, mine were OK until the drive home when the passenger side back window popped on our Tahoe.  Hopefully you weren't there in the storms.

Mark

Quote from: sdbowler on May 06, 2012, 06:57:21 PM

I subbed in state tournament this weekend for a friend who has been really sick. Shot 710 in team. Happy as hell with that. Bowled doubles and singles today. Not so good. Shot 560 in doubles and lucky enough to shoot 570 in singles. Had nothing weak enough to play the lanes. Pulled out the weakest ball I had and tried to take all my hand out of it. Still covering most of the lane.

Kyle,

I bowled the 700 tournament on Saturday night and didn't have anything weak enough.  Funny part is I shot fairly good two weekends ago for doubles, singles and team.  Mental note bowl the Friday evening or Saturday or Sunday morning early shift in the future. 

Poor bowling aside their were 9 vehicles Saturday night that had windows knocked out, mine were OK until the drive home when the passenger side back window popped on our Tahoe.  Hopefully you weren't there in the storms.

Mark

Mark we drove up Saturday morning. Well my wife drove while I was trying to sleep off a migraine. We got to Mitchell just as the second cell was getting bad. We missed all the hail THANK GOD. Listening to KIKN we heard about how cars were sliding off the interstate by Salem due to the hail. We were getting ready to leave Saturday night. We walked out to our car. East of the doors, we got pushed to the car. We sat in there for second or two. Decided to go back in and wait for a little bit. We got pushed back into the building. In those short few seconds the wind went from blowing out of the west to the out of the east. I saw about 4 vehicles that had windows shattered out. We drove home and saw Reed Timmer on one of the off ramps. What a weird day for weather.

I can see where you are going with this and I can agree to an extent.  However, the PBA uses more volume than what we see at the local level typically.  Just ask Sean Rash this year when he moved inside and was crowbarring the ball playing 22 out to 12 at the WSOB and watching the ball do nothing.  That is what this topic is about; the volume of oil and not so much the talent level of the bowler.  When my doubles partner at State Tournament has a 250 rev rate and has a hard time getting the ball to hold, that simply means the volume out there is not matchng up to the technology level of todays equipment. 

Another thing in regards to the PBA; how many times do you see the players using equipment like a Tropical Breeze, a Tornado, a Power Groove, and other entry level resins?  Rarely (Ciminelli used a natural a couple times and Belmo won using plastic a couple years ago).  Take the guy with the highest rev rate on tour and what did he throw all year (on tv anyway)?  Marvel Pearls, Critical Theory, and even a Nano at the US Open; all high end balls. 

For the record....we are not talking about this as a complaint, but more of a concern as to where the sport is going to be 5-10 years from now.  With the combination of a bad economy and bad management, your local level bowlers are going to stray from bowling tournaments because they wont pony up the cash to average 170 because centers are too stubborn to put a decent amount of oil volume on the lanes.  Centers are putting out close-your-eyes easy shots and having their bowlers average 210+ and then putting out half the volume at tournaments and then they average 170.  Then they want to know why tournament participation is declining.  Hmmmmmmm..........I wonder why.

First, I can not bowl. Second, I can bowl well enough to take my hand out of the ball, reduce the axis tilt, and keep the ball in play. If you are used to doing nothing but grabbing it at the bottom, that is your problem, not a lack of oil.

Have you ever wondered why Norm Duke can play up 5 or 10 when everyone else is inside 20? Granted, he is talented beyond compare. Part of the talent includes his ability to do all of the above, and at the same time manage ball speed to carry.

So, learn how to bowl better, and complain less.

That is just part of the stubborness of us bowlers.  Just because they make super hook monsters doesnt mean we have to buy them.  Most mid performance balls now are plenty strong enough to tackle 80-90% of todays lane conditions.  Really the only people that need the high end stuff, are those that are really speed dominate and those that travel alot to bowl tournaments.  90% of us dont need it on league patterns.  The only comparison to the PBA condition wise is the Cheetah pattern which is the shortest pattern they use (36 feet?)  However, the oil volume is still there to help the ball push.  How else would the pattern still play outside as opposed to playing 4th arrow?  I blame the manufacturers more than anybody for coming up with the goal of "Lets absorb oil at a faster rate".  Why would we want to absorb oil when it is the single most important factor in our sport?  Makes no sense to me.

The reason I agreed to an extent with the Norm Duke reference, is more because of the knowledge on what to on a given condition.  I heard rumor that State was 33 feet in length and hooking alot.  So, when I got home from bowling team, I pulled anything out of the bag that really hooked with the exception of one ball, a highly polished AMB Solid.  Other than that, I took a highly polished Ebonite Black Ice with 2 inch pin to PAP, a Ebonite Tornado pin up 5.5 inch pin to PAP, a Warlock DC Tour highly polished, and my spare ball.  The others on my pair, dull finish 300T, dull finish Ultimate Inferno just to name a couple.   Needless to say what was in the track to start with was completely shot by end of first game and there was 5 more to go.  It is what it is, though.  I shot 1850 and finished 550 pins from the leader in All Events Handicap.

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on May 08, 2012, 08:01:22 AM

I can see where you are going with this and I can agree to an extent.  However, the PBA uses more volume than what we see at the local level typically.  Just ask Sean Rash this year when he moved inside and was crowbarring the ball playing 22 out to 12 at the WSOB and watching the ball do nothing.  That is what this topic is about; the volume of oil and not so much the talent level of the bowler.  When my doubles partner at State Tournament has a 250 rev rate and has a hard time getting the ball to hold, that simply means the volume out there is not matchng up to the technology level of todays equipment. 

Another thing in regards to the PBA; how many times do you see the players using equipment like a Tropical Breeze, a Tornado, a Power Groove, and other entry level resins?  Rarely (Ciminelli used a natural a couple times and Belmo won using plastic a couple years ago).  Take the guy with the highest rev rate on tour and what did he throw all year (on tv anyway)?  Marvel Pearls, Critical Theory, and even a Nano at the US Open; all high end balls. 

For the record....we are not talking about this as a complaint, but more of a concern as to where the sport is going to be 5-10 years from now.  With the combination of a bad economy and bad management, your local level bowlers are going to stray from bowling tournaments because they wont pony up the cash to average 170 because centers are too stubborn to put a decent amount of oil volume on the lanes.  Centers are putting out close-your-eyes easy shots and having their bowlers average 210+ and then putting out half the volume at tournaments and then they average 170.  Then they want to know why tournament participation is declining.  Hmmmmmmm..........I wonder why.

Quote from: ccrider on May 07, 2012, 08:22:46 PM

First, I can not bowl. Second, I can bowl well enough to take my hand out of the ball, reduce the axis tilt, and keep the ball in play. If you are used to doing nothing but grabbing it at the bottom, that is your problem, not a lack of oil.

Have you ever wondered why Norm Duke can play up 5 or 10 when everyone else is inside 20? Granted, he is talented beyond compare. Part of the talent includes his ability to do all of the above, and at the same time manage ball speed to carry.

So, learn how to bowl better, and complain less.

+1000, and totally what the topic is all about. We all know(at least myself anyways) that we need to get better, its not about that at all. But, we arent Norm Duke either, and honestly noone on this board has the skills he has even at his age, so that is a useless comparison.

The problem is consistent at almost every tournament I go to- 99% of the bowlers participating use way too much ball on patterns that would require less aggressive equipment, and another part of the equation is typically the majority of bowlers out there have consistently bought/or have been sold more and more aggressive equipment, instead of having a more rounded arsenal from most to least aggressive stuff.

Either way in the end it is the bowler's shortcoming. You shoot 450 on a "dry shot" grabbing the ball at the bottom,  using the strongest hookmonster out and playing up ten all three games refusing to move your eyes or your feet. You then whine and moan because they did not put enough oil out for you. No, it's. not about your lack of skill.  It's all about the lane preparation and a not enough oil being put out. 

I admit I made a mistake in not taking my Slingshot along to the tournament, but when I shot the week before I shot the bulk of the games minors and team using my 503C and the team was on the second shift following doubles and singles. 

I ended up throwing my 300C during most of the night shift last Saturday for the 700 tournament.  I could not generate enough ball speed last Saturday due to shoulder issues to compensate the way I normally would due to issues with my shoulder.

Not all bowlers buy the HOOK in a Box, there are several of us out there that are content to throw entry or mid level equipment.  I agree I am no where as talented as Norm Duke and he can play lines that most of us and most pros just are not capable of playing the twig on conditions like Norm (it is an area that I am working on but have not become comfortable with).

Enjoy bowling and work on not being quite so critical of those of us who you don't know and have never seen bowl.

Have a good day!

Mark