Author Topic: Fast revving balls? how to drill? (Read 4790 times)

no300yet · « **on:** November 19, 2009, 03:00:59 PM »

My Original Cell( pin just below ring finger and MB about 2.5 in. right of thumb) works good for heavy-medium. But lately we have heavier and longer oil and it would not quite turn the corner unless I slow it down.

I have a Mutant Cell coming which is supposed to be "faster revving" and has more backend. Does fast revving have any significance for heavier oil? How should I get it drilled for heavy oil so it'll react similar to the Original Cell on heavy-medium?

My rev rate is about 230 and ball speed is about 13 mph; medium track.

Thanks!

AngloBowler · « **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2009, 02:00:21 AM »

I would go with the same pin placement, but swing the mass bias out another inch towards the VAL (although with the stronger mass bias, this might not be necessary).

The Mutant cell has a stronger differential, and a stronger coverstock, if the rotogrip blurb is to be believed (I've never seen one) so it should give you a better reaction on more oil.
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Reporting from England

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2009, 03:47:20 AM »

"Faster revving" is technically associated with a lower RG, which makes putting energy onto and delivering it while rolling and responding to friction easier. That said, the same ball with a lower RG will tend to respond to friction more quickly (while the surface prep and properties also play a major role), assuming that anything else including the setup is the same.
Moving the MB towards the PAP can help with axis migration towards the final stable roll axis - AngloBowler's advice just delivers that. It helps the ball getting earlier into its roll phase, good for long and heavier volumes.
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AngloBowler · « **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2009, 05:11:20 AM »

I should clarify, faster-revving, in this case is referring to the change in MB differential. When comparing these two balls, the RG and the differential are about the same, whereas the mutant has a stronger MB by about 25 %. Moving the MB, relative to the VAL, should have a larger effect than the same action with the original cell.
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Reporting from England

R-Zitro · « **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2009, 01:57:19 PM »

If I am understanding you guys correctly than a short pin would not be ideal on this ball. If you can how short of pin would you put on a high revving ball.

urbanshaft · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2009, 04:03:04 PM »

cell has lower rg and higher diff
mutant higher rg lower diff but 0.03 higher mb(15lbs)
so id think youd wanter a lower pin then your cell right now to get quicker reving and greater hook

86camaroman · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2009, 10:03:03 AM »

Now to me it sounds totally opposite I think the ball you have a pretty good drilling on it but depending on your pap is kind of an early rolling drilling on the mutant I would put the pin directly above the ring finger and put the mass bias about an 1 from the thumb so you get some length and backend. What I notice alot around here is everyone drills there strong balls strong and they dont hook because they burn up to early and they think that the lanes are dry and I am throwing a jazz from fourth arrow to 4 or 5 with no problems because it is storing engergy and not rolling out at the arrows. If you put the mass bias close to the val like that your ball will start hooking at the arrows and have nothing on the backend which is great for a down and in heavy oil shot or control ball but for most bowlers it doesnt give the backend you are wanting for example a driller around here drilled a seige for a guy he has pin in position for max flare and the mass bias is probably an inch from his pap his ball rolls out at the arrows and he hates the ball and the kicker is the driller is telling him that the ball is set up for length and the bowler asks me too look at the lay out and I just laughed and said thats why i drill my own stuff he has a fancy paper weight now

agroves · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2009, 10:53:59 AM »

I drilled a customer a Mutant Cell last week. His specs aren't very similar to yours, he throws the ball much faster and has more revs as well.

I drilled the MC 60* x 3.5" x 30*. The ball really peels off the friction.

Just keep the val angle small if you want it to respond quickly once it encounters friction.
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North Bowl Bowling Center
www.northbowl.com

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2009, 11:48:35 AM »

quote:

Just keep the val angle small if you want it to respond quickly once it encounters friction.
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North Bowl Bowling Center
www.northbowl.com

I agree. My MC is 50* 5.5" 40*. And it peels off the spot quickly. The only one that comes off the spot faster is my VE with a 60* 4.5 25*.
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no300yet · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2009, 09:05:20 PM »

quote:
Now to me it sounds totally opposite I think the ball you have a pretty good drilling on it but depending on your pap is kind of an early rolling drilling on the mutant I would put the pin directly above the ring finger and put the mass bias about an 1 from the thumb so you get some length and backend. What I notice alot around here is everyone drills there strong balls strong and they dont hook because they burn up to early and they think that the lanes are dry and I am throwing a jazz from fourth arrow to 4 or 5 with no problems because it is storing engergy and not rolling out at the arrows. If you put the mass bias close to the val like that your ball will start hooking at the arrows and have nothing on the backend which is great for a down and in heavy oil shot or control ball but for most bowlers it doesnt give the backend you are wanting for example a driller around here drilled a seige for a guy he has pin in position for max flare and the mass bias is probably an inch from his pap his ball rolls out at the arrows and he hates the ball and the kicker is the driller is telling him that the ball is set up for length and the bowler asks me too look at the lay out and I just laughed and said thats why i drill my own stuff he has a fancy paper weight now

I guarantee this is not the case as I can actually "see" the oil on the Cell when it comes back. Also it works a lot better when I slow down about 1-2 mph.

no300yet · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2009, 09:17:18 PM »

quote:
I drilled a customer a Mutant Cell last week. His specs aren't very similar to yours, he throws the ball much faster and has more revs as well.

I drilled the MC 60* x 3.5" x 30*. The ball really peels off the friction.

Just keep the val angle small if you want it to respond quickly once it encounters friction.
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Proshop Operator
North Bowl Bowling Center
www.northbowl.com

Thank you but how do you "keep the val angle" small? I only know that the ball would react faster with the pin higher: like above fingers.

I am also confused about the MB position. I thought I'd get the most backend if it's placed just right of thumb. But my driller said it would "snap" more with the CG swing out to the right thus the MB ended up on the VAL.....

agroves · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2009, 11:49:52 PM »

Check out Morich dual angle layouts....
.
The "other way" of looking at it is the pin buffer system. Put the pin about 1 to 1.5" from the VAL, with say a 4" pin placement. The closer the MB is the PAP, the SOONER it will roll, which typically means arc.

Questions?
--------------------
Proshop Operator
North Bowl Bowling Center
www.northbowl.com

Edited on 11/22/2009 1:43 AM

no300yet · « **Reply #12 on:** November 23, 2009, 12:05:09 AM »

quote:
Check out Morich dual angle layouts....
.
The "other way" of looking at it is the pin buffer system. Put the pin about 1 to 1.5" from the VAL, with say a 4" pin placement. The closer the MB is the PAP, the SOONER it will roll, which typically means arc.

Questions?
--------------------
Proshop Operator
North Bowl Bowling Center
www.northbowl.com

Edited on 11/22/2009 1:43 AM

OK. I do understand pin buffer system. The shorter the pin buffer usually means higher pin position. So you are saying such a drilling would work better for heavier and longer patterns?

Last time I tried a Cell with "similar" drilling and it was a hard to control beast. That's why I had it re-drilled.

I "probably" will try something in between: like pin just to the right of ring finger. Thanks so much!

iamone78 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 23, 2009, 01:07:10 AM »

To piggy back on what agroves said about MB placement in relation to the PAP. MB placement will affect the overall shape of the ball. If the MB is closer to the thumb, the shape will be more angular (hockey stick shape). If it is closer to the PAP, a more arching shape will result.

I went with a 50*x5.5"x20* on my newest S75 and I am very impressed with this drill. It is smooth through the heads and revs very nicely and is very strong off of the dry with great continuation through the pin deck.

I hope you were able to absorb some of what has been mentioned and be able to make an educated decision with your M/C.

Good Luck!

agroves · « **Reply #14 on:** November 23, 2009, 12:27:46 PM »

quote:
OK. I do understand pin buffer system. The shorter the pin buffer usually means higher pin position. So you are saying such a drilling would work better for heavier and longer patterns?

It may* work for you. I can't say for sure, but I would think you would see more movement at the end of the pattern. That said, you are right a drill like that is going to produce a more pronounced reaction and could be more difficult to control.

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Proshop Operator
North Bowl Bowling Center
www.northbowlspokane.com

Author Topic: Fast revving balls? how to drill? (Read 4790 times)

no300yet

Fast revving balls? how to drill?

AngloBowler

Re: Fast revving balls? how to drill?

dizzyfugu

Re: Fast revving balls? how to drill?

AngloBowler

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R-Zitro

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urbanshaft

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86camaroman

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agroves

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Xcessive_Evil

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no300yet

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no300yet

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agroves

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no300yet

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iamone78

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agroves

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