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Author Topic: Bowling on the approach  (Read 13800 times)

imagonman

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Bowling on the approach
« on: January 29, 2017, 01:26:09 PM »
what about_ bowlers actually bowling on the approach? I've seen many people set their ball down 3-7 feet behind the foul line. I see NO specific rule prohibiting this { a vague interpretation of rule 12 defacing 'might' apply??}, all they talk about is not fouling. These folks are never in danger of doing that, that's for sure!
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JOE FALCO

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 02:14:46 PM »
I don't know if there is a rule covering where to deliver the ball but I have seen times when the 'foul light' will go off when the ball passes through it .. In fact I remember times when the light was turned off to prevent this happening!
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Ken De Beasto

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 04:18:58 PM »
I dont know if there is a rule but it sure as hell is very annoying when people throw their ball before the foul line and leave oil marks here n there where people slide at....
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pears

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2017, 06:21:07 PM »
A teammate of mine (uncle) finishes his slide waaaayyy behind the line but is able to loft the ball out on to the lane. It really amazes me that he gets it out that far, he jokes about it too. I also know for a fact that our league has the foul light on (I crossed it when I was learning my new shoes.....lol)
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spmcgivern

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 08:13:09 AM »
From the rulebook:

Quote
5a/4 Is a foul called when the ball rolls over the foul line during delivery and the foul detector is activated?
The bowling ball is not considered a part of the bowler’s body. If the bowler did not step on or go beyond the foul line, a foul is not recorded.
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imagonman

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 11:16:13 AM »
Quote from: Ken De Beasto on January 29, 2017, 04:18:58 PM
I dont know if there is a rule but it sure as hell is very annoying when people throw their ball before the foul line and leave oil marks here n there where people slide at....

Yes, this is the question that's being posed here.
Is there a rule that can be applied to prevent/penalize the offenders from doing this?
Does Rule 12 apply?

Rule 12 – Approaches Must Not Be Defaced
The application of any foreign substance on any part of the approach that detracts from the possibility
of other players having normal conditions is prohibited.
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spmcgivern

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 11:52:42 AM »
Quote from: imagonman on January 30, 2017, 11:16:13 AM
Quote from: Ken De Beasto on January 29, 2017, 04:18:58 PM
I dont know if there is a rule but it sure as hell is very annoying when people throw their ball before the foul line and leave oil marks here n there where people slide at....

Yes, this is the question that's being posed here.
Is there a rule that can be applied to prevent/penalize the offenders from doing this?
Does Rule 12 apply?

Rule 12 – Approaches Must Not Be Defaced
The application of any foreign substance on any part of the approach that detracts from the possibility
of other players having normal conditions is prohibited.

Not sure how you can define the actual bowling ball as a foreign substance.  I realize a ball can leave a mark on the lane, but can that mark actually affect your approach, or do you think it does.

Every lane of a center has had numerous attacks on it from open play bowlers dumping balls on the approach.  Every center I have been to has the remnants of this attack all over.  But not one time can I say those marks caused me to stick or slip or anything.

Use of EZ-slide or powder or rosin or any other "foreign" substance can affect the other bowlers.  So can using non-bowling shoes.  Those instances can be regulated.
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xrayjay

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 12:37:23 PM »
when I see bowlers drop their ball on the approach and I happen to stick going for my left side spares, I tell them politely what they are doing. I'll revert to hooking it for the left side spares to avoid hurting my knee.

Shouldn't it be a foul? the ball crossing over the foul line? lol the house I bowl, the foul sensor is off.
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 01:05:12 PM »
This has come up before, usually in regard to if a ball is set down before the foul line and the foul lights go off is it considered a foul.

There is no rule against setting the ball down on the approach, Rule 4 – Delivering the Ball just say's.

Quote
4a. Legal Delivery
A delivery is made when the ball leaves the player’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory. Every delivery counts unless a dead ball is declared. (See Rule 8.) A delivery must be made entirely by manual means. No device may be incorporated in or affixed to the ball that detaches on delivery or is a moving part during delivery except as provided in Rule 4b and Rule


It can be inferred from the Commonly Asked Questions for Rule 5a. that the ball being on the approach before the foul line is legal and doesn't violate the rules.

Quote
5a/4 Is a foul called when the ball rolls over the foul line during delivery and the foul detector is activated?
The bowling ball is not considered a part of the bowler’s body. If the bowler did not step on or go beyond the foul line, a foul is not recorded.

Does it violate rule 12 (Do to the oil on the ball possibly being transferred to the approach)?

While you could maybe make a argument that it did violate it, I suspect it wouldn't go anywhere, unless it was a really egregious case.




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imagonman

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 01:44:51 PM »
Quote from: Aloarjr810 on January 30, 2017, 01:05:12 PM
This has come up before, usually in regard to if a ball is set down before the foul line and the foul lights go off is it considered a foul.

There is no rule against setting the ball down on the approach, Rule 4 – Delivering the Ball just say's.

Quote
4a. Legal Delivery
A delivery is made when the ball leaves the player’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory. Every delivery counts unless a dead ball is declared. (See Rule 8.) A delivery must be made entirely by manual means. No device may be incorporated in or affixed to the ball that detaches on delivery or is a moving part during delivery except as provided in Rule 4b and Rule


It can be inferred from the Commonly Asked Questions for Rule 5a. that the ball being on the approach before the foul line is legal and doesn't violate the rules.

Quote
5a/4 Is a foul called when the ball rolls over the foul line during delivery and the foul detector is activated?
The bowling ball is not considered a part of the bowler’s body. If the bowler did not step on or go beyond the foul line, a foul is not recorded.

Does it violate rule 12 (Do to the oil on the ball possibly being transferred to the approach)?

While you could maybe make a argument that it did violate it, I suspect it wouldn't go anywhere, unless it was a really egregious case.

We know it is NOT a foul but is it 'defacing the approach' causing other bowlers to have an approach considered 'not normal conditions'?
 Again I post :
Rule 12 – Approaches Must Not Be Defaced
The application of any foreign substance on any part of the approach that detracts from the possibility
of other players having normal conditions is prohibited.
Transfering lane oil to the approach by throwing the ball 6 ft. behind the line is applying a foreign substance to the approach thereby defacing it no?
I've seen others slip/stick/double hop bcuz of said actions.
What would you do if this situation presented itself on your pair? and it affected/changed the approach for you. These 2 guys started doing this @ the end of the 2nd game. 1st 2 games they were bowling 'normally' at the line or close enough to it. Their team lost the 1st 2 games badly as I was dead on shooting 265 and 235. By the 3rd game with the approaches changing as noted above no one could 'trust' the approach anymore. Bcuz it had been 'changed' on purpose it appears. And it worked. They still lost the last game but only by 3 pins. Still someone could have gotten injured.
So does Rule 12 apply?
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spmcgivern

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 01:57:59 PM »
I think this is one of those "you had to be there" times.  If a bowler is losing badly and thus starts to change the way they throw the ball then other issues can be at play. 

Does the bowler go from a normal approach and release "at the foul line" to not stepping on the lane and just chunking down the lane in disgust?  This is more an issue of sandbagging or bad sportsmanship than whatever may happen from the ball going down the approach.

Or is the ball landing 6-inches or 12-inches from the foul line assuming a typical approach by the bowler?  I guess you can convince yourself of tampering, but again, this seems less likely a case of a foreign substance or purposely trying to deface the approach.

It is probably somewhere in between (though you did say 6-feet worth of ball rolling on the approach) and is more likely bad sportsmanship.  In which case the league may have some grounds to prevent.

But by rule, releasing the ball behind the foul line is not a foul.  The ball hitting the approach and rolling over the foul line is not a foul.  If you want to argue other aspects, I wish you luck; again, probably one of those "you had to be there" times.
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2017, 04:07:51 PM »
Okay, Here's what the USBC Rules dept. say about it.

(TL;DR answer at bottom)

Question: A player during the delivery releases the ball onto the approach before the foul line:

1: Does that violate any USBC rule?

2: If oil on the ball gets on the approach because of said delivery, is the player in violation of Rule 12 – Approaches Must Not Be Defaced?

Answer:

Good Afternoon,

This is in regards to your inquiry.

A bowler who releases the ball behind the foul line would not violate any USBC Rule.

In regards to your second question, if oil is left behind on the approach and it is affecting other members of the leagues approach, it could be a violation of Rule 12.

It would be best to speak with the bowler and explain the fact that their delivery could affect others within the league. If the member refuses to move up further on the approach and continues, a written complaint can be filed with any league officer.

Once a written complaint is filed, the board (captains & officers) would meet and determine if some type of disciplinary action is needed. For example, the board could issue a warning or consider possible removal following the provisions in Rule 115a.

Disciplinary action in the USBC is never automatic or arbitrary, and a definite procedure must be followed whenever a USBC member is to be considered for such action. Dismissal from a league during the season is outlined in Rule 115a and requires a league board of directors’ meeting be held to address the situation and make a decision regarding a complaint received.  If a complaint is filed against a member of the league, those involved in the complaint should be present to explain their side of the situation and dismissed only when the board discusses the information provided and makes a decision.  It takes a two-thirds vote of the board to dismiss a player from the league.

Please let me know if you have further questions or concerns.

Jennifer Land
Rules Counselor



The TL;DR answer:

"Rolling the ball on the approach isn't against USBC rules."

"Oil off the ball getting on the approach could be a violation of Rule 12.  Politely inform the player why they shouldn't do it. If they keep on doing it, file a written complaint to the league and let it run it course and see how far it gets you."
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 04:26:19 PM by Aloarjr810 »
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imagonman

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Re: Bowling on the approach
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2017, 05:22:22 PM »
I also sent an email inquiry to USBC, here is the reply I recvd:



This is in reference to your e-mail of January 30, 2017.

I would agree, there is no specific USBC Rule governing the distance behind the foul line a ball must be released.

 
You are also correct in that USBC Rule 12 could come into play in this situation.

 USBC rule 12 states, " the application of any foreign substance on any part of the approach that detracts from the possibility of other players having normal conditions is prohibited. This included, but is not limited to, such substance as talcum powder, pumice and resin on shoes; also soft rubber soles or heels that rub off on the approach."

 Any foreign substance applied to the approach could be in violation of  rule 12.

 
If a league or tournament participant delivers their ball 3-7 feet behind the foul line and somebody complains that it prohibits them from having normal approach conditions, the competition officials should investigate.

 If they determine the bowlers bowling delivery interferes with the approach conditions for the other bowlers, they should ask the individual to move up on the approach and release their ball closer to the foul line.

 We hope this information is helpful and if you have questions regarding this, please feel free to contact me.

 
John Budnik
Senior Rules Counselor
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