BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Dogtown on February 11, 2014, 12:57:03 PM
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I'm a right hander with a span of 4-1/8" L; 4-1/4" R
3 years ago I dropped from 15lb to 14lb because my finger joints would get sore after throwing more than 3 games. And sometimes my wrist. I tried pitching my fingers with 1/4" reverse (away from palm) with no luck.
I'm starting to think maybe there is more to it. My thumb pitch is 1/4" reverse and 1/4" away (right). That means my fingers and thumb are spread out from each other like palming a basketball ( I still pitch my fingers with 1/4" reverse). The lateral pitches on my fingers are 3/8" L and 3/8" R. When checking my angle on the finger pitch fan chart, I'm at 15 degrees.
I re-measured myself the other day, and my span does appear to have gotten about 1/8" shorter. I'm still in my 30's & in good shape. I see no reason why I shouldn't be throwing 15lb?
Any thoughts. I've been drilling for over 15 years, but I haven't worked in a pro-shop in a while, so I don't fit people anymore. I feel like a doctor trying to diagnose myself. I'm going to a local pro-shop for some help, but I wanted to try here too.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
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While some may disagree with me on finger pitches, your thumb pitch is excessive in both directions. We recommend getting refit every 2 years because regardless of age, your hand changes. I would stay with 1/4 reverse in the fingers, that sounds reasonable. The lateral pitches in your fingers sounds ok, I might even suggest trying 1/8 and 5/8, it lets most people's hands sit in a more natural position. With that short of a span, I'd completely eliminate the lateral pitch in the thumb, and if you don't want to go nuts all at the same time, back your reverse in your thumb down to 1/8.
I've got a few videos on fit theory, if you watch all of them it's kind of long, but the first one at least ought to get you the idea (I really need to reshoot them . .).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLlLKku5l2U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-KGGPLcU80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV634xL1iBg
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Gizmo has an good point I uses an 1/4 reverse with 0 lateral in my thumb which has an span 5 and 5 1/16. My fingers are 7/8 rev middle finger 5/8 rev in ring I have very stiff fingers.
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I was told that bowler's span should be checked every two years. Or when there's a big physical change, weight gain, injury, etc......for my case, I've gained weight lol :D
I'm not a driller, but your thumb angle (fixed) :D seems like you're gonna grip the ball at some point in your swing with added axis rotation. When I had 1/4" back w/ < 0* > in my thumb, I had a tired hand after bowling and a calous at the base of my thumb. JustRico suggested I go foward and lateral and it has worked out really well for me.
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For starters if the span is incorrect everything else is merely a band-aid...and weight is relevant to persons build more than anything.
So if your span is incorrect it 'makes' you grip the ball incorrectly and honestly pitch is the worst possible word to describe the gripping holes...it is and should be worded as angles...anyways, if the span is long, you will squeeze it to hold onto thus increasing any angles as well as applying pressures to the tendons & joints. Now add the angle of the thumb which is a slowing or delayed release angle and you are applying more pressure to simply let go of the ball...
I'm a big believer in the angles should not be too conflicting to allowing gravity to create the proper release time and angle into the lane.
If the span is correct, then start placing the thumb into the gripping hole, whatever angle your thumb wants to go in is its true zero angle...any deviation changes the release speed...
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That's about as good as it can be explained. I like to explain it as the angles the holes are drilled at, but pitch is the generally universal vernacular for it unfortunately . . But yes, if the span is off, it can and will create problems elsewhere. If your hand is out of position, it could cause you to incorrectly diagnose problems elsewhere. Or in other words, a span issue that causes you to grip could appear to be a thumb problem, and if you "fix" the thumb, it could snowball further in the wrong direction.
For starters if the span is incorrect everything else is merely a band-aid...and weight is relevant to persons build more than anything.
So if your span is incorrect it 'makes' you grip the ball incorrectly and honestly pitch is the worst possible word to describe the gripping holes...it is and should be worded as angles...anyways, if the span is long, you will squeeze it to hold onto thus increasing any angles as well as applying pressures to the tendons & joints. Now add the angle of the thumb which is a slowing or delayed release angle and you are applying more pressure to simply let go of the ball...
I'm a big believer in the angles should not be too conflicting to allowing gravity to create the proper release time and angle into the lane.
If the span is correct, then start placing the thumb into the gripping hole, whatever angle your thumb wants to go in is its true zero angle...any deviation changes the release speed...
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Span dictates pitch pitch does not dictate span
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JustRico, you need to right another book on this topic (as well as a few others). I follow most of what you say, but I feel like there is still some missing.
Ok, determining my correct span is pretty straight forward. When you say "If the span is correct, then start placing the thumb into the gripping hole, whatever angle your thumb wants to go in is its true zero angle". Are you referring to a hole drilled at 0 and seeing which direction the thumb naturally points.
Also, finger angles?? My fingers are normal with good flexibility. My angle on the finger pitch fan chart is 15 degrees. Some charts say 5/16" L; and 9/16" R. Your thoughts?
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Gizmo823, good videos!!
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Okay...most has been said but will try and do a quick overview to help....1 span...when thumb is inserted without fingers, the first knuckle should be centered on the finger hole/insert. Finger pitches are dictated by flexibility of fingers. Kids super flexible, adults less. Most adults are reverse in the fingers and have drilled as much as 7/8 reverse in fingers in extreme circumstances. Thumb pitch. Still to this day the Coke bottle test works best I have found for a starting point. The adjust as necessary due to short thumb, double jointed, plastic ball....etc...hope this helps.
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To elaborate on what I'm referencing...in regards to your fingers, which align on a different line that the thumb hinges on, if you start your thumb into a hole, it will want to go into it's preferred angle which would/should be considered its desired angle. Now that would be considered its 'zero' pitch or angle; depending on flexibility variations can be made to alter release angles and speeds.
Finger lateral pitches are based on finger alignment in regards to their preferred hinge and has minimal effect on release other than creating undue friction, but should stay comparable to thumb angle.
Honestly very few see the hand and the dynamics created by the release that I do...things are not as static as many would like to make it.
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To elaborate on what I'm referencing...in regards to your fingers, which align on a different line that the thumb hinges on, if you start your thumb into a hole, it will want to go into it's preferred angle which would/should be considered its desired angle. Now that would be considered its 'zero' pitch or angle; depending on flexibility variations can be made to alter release angles and speeds.
Finger lateral pitches are based on finger alignment in regards to their preferred hinge and has minimal effect on release other than creating undue friction, but should stay comparable to thumb angle.
Honestly very few see the hand and the dynamics created by the release that I do...things are not as static as many would like to make it.
+infinity
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So to find the correct angle of the thumb do you have to use a ball fitter? Can you use whats already drilled in the ball and work from there?
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That's what I would do if possible as it's an already drilled hole and you know the existing angle
I can usually get close visually but that's the easiest
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Just to take baby steps. Once thats done and your thumb is in do you fan the hand across the ball naturally to mark your fingers and the center grip line based off of that?
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Ya more or less...but that's creating the lines that each digit hinge off of and understanding the linear dynamics of the hand
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Very cool. That is in book two right? I'm ready to pre-order my advanced advanced copy.
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In reference to the post if the bowler experienced pain after a few games with 15lbs and drops to 14lbs and has no issues could it also be an arthritis problem? And not a span issue.
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Weight issues or issues created from an improper fit can effect in varying ways...that's why I said sometimes it could just be the weight. But realize, when a bowling ball is swung properly, it creates 3-4 G's which increases the weight 3-4Xs...so if the fit is incorrect it increases the feeling of the weight....
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less reverse in the thumb should relax your grip some, which will make your ligaments and muscles happy! Place your fingers in the ball and relax the grip, if your finger nails touch the tops of the holes then you need more reverse in the fingers. I have a 5" span and have less reverse in the thumb than you. I used to have almost 3/4" reverse in my thumb and my wrist and forearm would kill me, along with not being able to have any ball speed at all due to muscling.