Author Topic: Fireworks before league (Read 1860 times)

agroves · « **on:** November 19, 2008, 04:41:22 PM »

Important info:
4 person MIXED Scratch league
Cap is 826
Bowler A--assistant manager of center
Bowler B--irrelevant
Bowler C--assistant managers husband
Bowler D--general manager of center--also the league secretary

A team captains meeting was called tonight before league. A league member wished to dispute the average of Bowler C. Bowler C had a 2007-2008 SUMMER book average of 211 for 28 games and a winter average of 202 for 12 games. His 2006-2007 book average was 186.

For the cap purposes, this league uses your average based on the following in order of importance:
1. Previous years average in THIS league.
2. Average in the center(if you didn't bowl this league)
3. Composite average of all leagues bowled
4. Book average from two years ago if you haven't bowled since.
5. I forget, it never gets this far.

Bowler C didn't bowl this league last year due to work schedule. His summer average in the center was 211 like I said above. This league has NEVER used summer averages to calculate for the cap. So, the team reverted back to 06-07 to get an average of 186. Bowler C is currently averaging 201.

A member of the league is disputing his average and the legality of the team. There is a USBC rule that states summer averages are to be used as a legal average provided they meet the 21 game minimum if there is no previous winter average(rule 319a, #1). The league does not have a rule in place to exclude summer averages from consideration.

Of course, this made the team angry. They felt they did nothing wrong by excluding his summer average. The first motion was to change/add a rule to exclude summer averages which requires 100% league approval(all members). That got squashed in hurry, b/c Bowler D didn't allow other teams to use certain people due to average/cap issues.

So, the team captains/officers decided they would not have to forfeit any points but they would be required to get in line with the rules in place. This means one person will need to be replaced.

I'm a friend of the team in question as well as an employee of the center. As a team captain I had a vote in the final decision, I got accused of "taking sides" by my so called friends/bosses. To which I replied, "there isn't a side, there are rules that we must follow". Period.

I heard that they will appeal to the USBC for a further ruling...stay tuned!
--------------------
--"I see your opinion, I just don''t give a f$%k."

Edited on 11/20/2008 2:33 AM

rockerbowler18 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2008, 12:51:55 AM »

quote:
Important info:
4 person MIXED Scratch league
Cap is 826
Bowler A--assistant manager of center
Bowler B--irrelevant
Bowler C--assistant managers husband
Bowler D--general manager of center--also the league secretary

A team captains meeting was called tonight before league. A league member wished to dispute the average of Bowler C. Bowler C had a 2007-2008 SUMMER book average of 211 for 28 games and a winter average of 202 for 12 games. His 2006-2007 book average was 186.

For the cap purposes, this league uses your average based on the following in order of importance:
1. Previous years average in THIS league.
2. Average in the center(if you didn't bowl this league)
3. Composite average of all leagues bowled
4. Book average from two years ago if you haven't bowled since.
5. I forget, it never gets this far.

Bowler C didn't bowl this league last year due to work schedule. His summer average in the center was 211 like I said above. This league has NEVER used summer averages to calculate for the cap. So, the team reverted back to 06-07 to get an average of 186. Bowler C is currently averaging 201.

A member of the league is disputing his average and the legality of the team. There is a USBC rule that states summer averages are to be used as a legal average provided they meet the 21 game minimum if there is no previous winter average(rule 53, #4). The league does not have a rule in place to exclude summer averages from consideration.

Of course, this made the team angry. They felt they did nothing wrong by excluding his summer average. The first motion was to change/add a rule to exclude summer averages which requires 100% league approval(all members). That got squashed in hurry, b/c Bowler D didn't allow other teams to use certain people due to average/cap issues.

So, the team captains/officers decided they would not have to forfeit any points but they would be required to get in line with the rules in place. This means one person will need to be replaced.

I'm a friend of the team in question as well as an employee of the center. As a team captain I had a vote in the final decision, I got accused of "taking sides" by my so called friends/bosses. To which I replied, "there isn't a side, there are rules that we must follow". Period.

I heard that they will appeal to the USBC for a further ruling...stay tuned!
--------------------
--"I see your opinion, I just don''t give a f$%k."

"Stay Tuned"

It's like General Hospital...but it's a bowling alley!!!

It's "General Bowling Alley"!
--------------------
JAT Junior Amateur Tour

Robb's Pro Shops: Bakersfield, California

Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 17-18 mph
Current Average: 229

Silencer · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2008, 12:56:14 AM »

If in the league rules, there is nothing that states that a summer average will be used over a different average at any point, then Bowler C's summer average should not be used.

By going next on the list you gave, they would be able to go back 2 years and take that 186 average. Or you can have that league vote on the first night of the league to see if the whole league wants to use a summer average.

Good luck with your situation!
--------------------
And Then...........

I left another 10 pin

J-Rad Lawrence

agroves · « **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2008, 01:27:06 AM »

quote:
If in the league rules, there is nothing that states that a summer average will be used over a different average at any point, then Bowler C's summer average should not be used.

Good point, but the USBC says that the summer average is a "offical" average. The league rules don't address this either way, therefore we have to go by the USBC rules.
--------------------
--"I see your opinion, I just don't give a f$%k."

Edited on 11/20/2008 2:34 AM

Silencer · « **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2008, 05:34:09 AM »

Well I think if the specific rules in the league states the specific order in which an average will be found, those rules should be followed.

Summer averages are absolutely horrible averages to go off to use for anything. USBC saying that the summer average should be used just increases my bad opinion for USBC.
--------------------
And Then...........

I left another 10 pin

J-Rad Lawrence

agroves · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2008, 06:10:52 AM »

quote:
Well I think if the specific rules in the league states the specific order in which an average will be found, those rules should be followed.

Summer averages are absolutely horrible averages to go off to use for anything. USBC saying that the summer average should be used just increases my bad opinion for USBC.

I'd be curious to hear why you think summer averages shouldn't be used. If the scores where shot within USBC rules, what difference does it make?
--------------------
--"I see your opinion, I just don't give a f$%k."

HighSpeedLowRevs · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2008, 08:01:15 AM »

I agree, why shouldn't summer averages count? Only someone that wants to bowl to their capabilities in the summer, only to sandbag in the winter would make a statment like that.

mmcfarland300 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2008, 08:07:07 AM »

You stated they have a order in which they will select the average that gets used. I never saw Summer Average listed on there. I think the 06 07 average should be upheld because the league rule says to use it.

ucumin2 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2008, 08:09:03 AM »

Problem is you have 2 take average with most games sanction. If summer league is not then doesn't matter what bowler bowled. Just make bowler start with average snd then readjust after 3 games or 9 like most leagues do at beginning of season

agroves · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2008, 08:34:01 AM »

quote:
You stated they have a order in which they will select the average that gets used. I never saw Summer Average listed on there. I think the 06 07 average should be upheld because the league rule says to use it.

Actually, considering his official average(summer average) was in this house, he would have to use 211 under the league rules...see:

quote:
For the cap purposes, this league uses your average based on the following in order of importance:
1. Previous years average in THIS league.
2. Average in the center(if you didn't bowl this league)
3. Composite average of all leagues bowled
4. Book average from two years ago if you haven't bowled since.
5. I forget, it never gets this far.

--------------------
--"I see your opinion, I just don't give a f$%k."

cheech · « **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2008, 08:35:12 AM »

if you have bowled 12 games already this year and you already agreed that the are not forfeiting any points, just use his average from this year and fix the league rules for future rulings. also, the first thing i noticed was the cap was 826 kind of an odd number rofl. also unless the disputed average would make the team go over the cap why would it matter what his averaged started at if it is a scratch league.
--------------------
HG:300x2(SR300 both)289(sawblade)280(SR300)
HS:792(SR300)778(SR300)778(SR300/Dr.Jekyll)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
arsenal: rival arch rival dead flush blue vibe scout SR300 plastic
on the way maybe the sauce or momentum swing.
sacred heart university bowling, frosh. 67th in average 12th for rookies
ave:202.3 sport 218 THS
p.s. go leftys

agroves · « **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2008, 08:40:26 AM »

quote:
if you have bowled 12 games already this year and you already agreed that the are not forfeiting any points, just use his average from this year and fix the league rules for future rulings. also, the first thing i noticed was the cap was 826 kind of an odd number rofl. also unless the disputed average would make the team go over the cap why would it matter what his averaged started at if it is a scratch league.

Can't "fix" the rules...it requires 100% league approval. That means every member has to agree to change the rule. That was IMMEDIATELY voted down.

Cap number WAS 825 but two teams were allowed in at that number.

Yes, the disputed average would put the team WELL over the cap....I believe the 211 would put them about 848.

BTW, this team just won the first quarter....
--------------------
--"I see your opinion, I just don't give a f$%k."

mmcfarland300 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2008, 08:54:08 AM »

Then it is way too late this would have had to of been corrected early on. Besides is it a SCRATCH league or not.

Silencer · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2008, 03:35:37 PM »

Personally, I have never bowled a summer league. I just think that summer averages are too short. The rule that a book average should count after 21 games is a bad idea in my opinion. If a bowler has a few bad weeks getting used to the new lane conditions lets say, by the time they figure it out, their average won't be fully balanced yet. Or if a bowler starts out on absolute fire in the summer, before their average has a chance to come back to reality, they are stuck with this super high average that they won't probably be able to hold.

I think that no average should be considered a legal book until it is somewhere in the 45-60 games region. By that point, you know that is the bowlers real average and should have dealt with both the ups and downs already.

If the league rules said take ANY in house average then I guess you would have to take the summer one. Sorry that the team won the league because obviously bowler C is much better then what they entered the league with.
--------------------
And Then...........

I left another 10 pin

J-Rad Lawrence

Spider Ball Bowler · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2008, 03:41:06 PM »

quote:
I agree, why shouldn't summer averages count? Only someone that wants to bowl to their capabilities in the summer, only to sandbag in the winter would make a statment like that.

No ones does that ever

--------------------
Ahhh Disco Biscuits!

Author Topic: Fireworks before league (Read 1860 times)

agroves

Fireworks before league

rockerbowler18

Re: Fireworks before league

Silencer

Re: Fireworks before league

agroves

Re: Fireworks before league

Silencer

Re: Fireworks before league

agroves

Re: Fireworks before league

HighSpeedLowRevs

Re: Fireworks before league

mmcfarland300

Re: Fireworks before league

ucumin2

Re: Fireworks before league

agroves

Re: Fireworks before league

cheech

Re: Fireworks before league

agroves

Re: Fireworks before league

mmcfarland300

Re: Fireworks before league

Silencer

Re: Fireworks before league

Spider Ball Bowler

Re: Fireworks before league