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Author Topic: Flare in air  (Read 1474 times)

Ragnar

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Flare in air
« on: January 04, 2005, 03:04:12 AM »
The other day I was at the pro-shop, bsing, and a decent lefty came in to check his PAP which seemed to have changed a lot.  On one ball he had a PAP of something like 5 1/2 over and 1/2 up.  On another, more aggressive shell and core, it was something like 4 over and 2 up - big difference.  We got to talking about why and it came out that he lofted the ball, a lot, so he went back and took a few shots with the lower PAP ball, setting it down early.  Pap now was 5 1/4 over and 1/2 up.  In talking about why I suggested that maybe the ball was actually starting to flare in the air, as he lofted it, somehow causing or allowing  the difference.  It seemed plausible at the time.  

What I want to know from any guru's out there, is this theory full of snot, or does it make sense?
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CharlieBrown

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Re: Flare in air
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2005, 11:12:41 AM »
This happens to me too.

On another post,

http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=69097&ForumID=14&CategoryID=2


tenpinspro
 
quote:
In regards to the lower track on high flaring ball question, I truly don't have an answer for you. I just know what I see for myself and a few others. I have a couple of ideas though, it can be the actual placement of the core to begin with which places it in a different angle or it's been discussed that the ball is actually moving already from release to lane. I know it seems hard to believe but it does seem to happen. I've pulled inverted tracks off finger holes by drilling stack lev so it can be the ball or core placement IMHO. Maybe KOTM, khamul or some of the more technical guys can explain it better then I can


My PAP with a high flare ball differs to low flare ball, by quite a lot, similar to the lefty you saw.


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Pinbuster

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Re: Flare in air
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2005, 11:18:03 AM »
Flare is caused by the core trying to seek a stable axis of rotation. As soon as it is allowed to spin without any outside forces (your hand) is will start to migrate to that stable axis.

So the ball in the air could flare and the more revolutions it would make in the air the more it would migrate. In fact it might flare at a faster rate because the friction of the air would be less than the friction of the lane even in oil.
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Ragnar

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Re: Flare in air
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2005, 11:25:07 AM »
OK, so if a ball flares in the air does this have any implications for drilling for someone who lofts the ball a lot, as opposed to someone who gets it down early?  My driller seemed to think so.
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thfonz98

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Re: Flare in air
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2005, 11:28:35 AM »
same here..i loft it a little....super carbide bomb...really low tracking...everything else high tracking(vicous pearl, attack, v2s)

so yes
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Pinbuster

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Re: Flare in air
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2005, 11:45:25 AM »
I wouldn’t really think so.

I wouldn’t think you could get more than 2 revolutions in before the ball hits the lane unless you are lofting to the arrows. At most you would be talking a migration of ½” and that is with ¼” separation of track.

I know Rags example stated more change than that but if you had that much flare it would seem to me you would flare clear around the ball and start hitting holes.

They may have changed their tune but during the training on drilling Quantum’s they felt that missing a pap by less than an inch really didn’t affect ball performance. Today with Mass Bias location and asymmetrical cores it may mean more but I wouldn’t think a ½” miss would really be much affect.

Also I would still measure off the first track oil ring. It is the starting track on the lane that matters not what is in the air. Only the flare on the lane will affect performance.

If there is that large of a difference then I might keep two PAP’s depending on core type being drilled.

 
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DanH78

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Re: Flare in air
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2005, 11:53:49 AM »
Couldn't PAP migration in the air have to do with a change in release?  I know that when I'm throwing my typical shot, I loft the ball about 18-24 inches, however when the heads burn up I start lofting 2 to 3 times that much.  I also rotate my hand more around the side of the ball at a later point in the release.  I would think that would change my axis point.
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TTforshort

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Re: Flare in air
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2005, 06:19:43 PM »

I never thought about it, but I guess in order to achieve the desired effect, one would have to base the pin off an axis approx. 1" closer to the grip center. So instead of drilling 4 stacked, you would drill 5 stacked, and get the 4 stacked effect...[/quote]

Bob, you must remember that since the ball has allegedly flared some before it hit  the lane, the flare will be reduced. By drilling the ball to account for the lost flare probably would would have no affect. There is only so much flare, if you lose some, you aren't going to gain any more. If you want to have maximum flare, drill the ball for maximum flare.

Make sense?

TT
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