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Author Topic: flipping a ball  (Read 3495 times)

echidapus

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flipping a ball
« on: May 30, 2010, 01:18:17 PM »
Based upon a previous topic.  

If you don't use your thumbhole, is it legal to flip your ball over to create a different reaction?  I have done this, so my ball doesn't flip so early and it will go longer down the lane.  

Thanks..
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storm_fan

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2010, 09:28:40 PM »
To my knowlage as long as the ball passes weighing specs(top/side weight)for the ways it's drilled it don't matter how you hold it and throw it.
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J_Mac

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2010, 10:56:36 PM »
I believe you are required to cover the thumb hole if drilled and unused...
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icewall

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2010, 10:56:41 PM »
I remember reading that you couldnt do that, however the article I read was about having a tiny thumbhole and it was from years ago before 2 handed become popular.
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racincowboy3

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2010, 11:02:55 PM »
I would imagine that it is not to different from throwing a backup type ball I guess.

However, in a kinda unrelated topic, I was told that if your ball has a thumb hole and it is not being used, that it counts as a weight hole and thus you may not have a true weight hole. Rule says something about the holes used to throw the ball plus 1 extra.
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J_Mac

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 11:07:47 PM »
From the USBC -

"Do I have to use all gripping holes during the delivery of the ball?

If a thumb hole is not being used during a delivery and a weight/balance hole is present, a bowler must demonstrate that all gripping holes can be used for gripping purposes simultaneously. The ball must be within specification as the ball rests in the bowlers hand but all holes do not need to be used for gripping purposes during a delivery."

Rule 118b/5 -   

"What are the requirements of a delivery for a two-handed approach?

A two-handed bowler is required to use the same dominant hand during their delivery on both their first and second shots (this refers to the hand in which the bowling ball rests). They also have the option of utilizing a thumb hole or not—both are acceptable. However, only one set of gripping holes is allowed."
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BrianCRX90

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2010, 01:53:05 PM »
That is false. If it is a rule no one is enforcing it. As long as you use your same hand it doesn't matter what side of the ball you are using. I have been bowling with a guy for 10 years that uses his thumb for strikes balls and all left side spares but anything on the right he flips the ball over and palms it creating a strong backup ball that looks like a left hander is throwing it but he's using his right hand. Does this for 10 pins and most anything on the right.
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J_w73

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2010, 08:34:13 PM »
quote:
That is false. If it is a rule no one is enforcing it. As long as you use your same hand it doesn't matter what side of the ball you are using. I have been bowling with a guy for 10 years that uses his thumb for strikes balls and all left side spares but anything on the right he flips the ball over and palms it creating a strong backup ball that looks like a left hander is throwing it but he's using his right hand. Does this for 10 pins and most anything on the right.


ok.. so this guy has been cheating for 10 years and no one has called him on it..

doesn't make anything false...
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bltbyj

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2010, 09:28:12 PM »
quote:
quote:
That is false. If it is a rule no one is enforcing it. As long as you use your same hand it doesn't matter what side of the ball you are using. I have been bowling with a guy for 10 years that uses his thumb for strikes balls and all left side spares but anything on the right he flips the ball over and palms it creating a strong backup ball that looks like a left hander is throwing it but he's using his right hand. Does this for 10 pins and most anything on the right.


ok.. so this guy has been cheating for 10 years and no one has called him on it..

doesn't make anything false...


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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185


How is the guy cheating? As long as he uses his dominant hand for both shots it's not cheating if I read the rule right.
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kidlost2000

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2010, 09:46:52 PM »
It will depend on how USBC decides to interpret the rule. The way I look at it is like this. If you have a ball drilled with two finger holes and one thumb hole and throw it with no thumb and the thumb hole is facing you the ball should be legal.

If you flip the ball with the thumb hole away from you the ball is more then likely not going to be legal because the bowling balls CG, and thumb hole are now above the fingers and if you were to set it on a scale and measure it that way it would likely be off on the new finger and thumb weight. If you look at the pic you have a better idea of what I am saying.

I would email USBC and ask. It is much easier then going through the website.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg252/soundcontrol/ball.jpg

According to this

If a thumb hole is not being used during a delivery and a weight/balance hole is present, a bowler must demonstrate that all gripping holes can be used for gripping purposes simultaneously. The ball must be within specification as the ball rests in the bowlers hand but all holes do not need to be used for gripping purposes during a delivery."


If you flip the ball and it has a weight hole and a thumb hole there is no way you can use the thumb hole for gripping purposes because it is no where near your thumb.



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Edited on 5/31/2010 9:50 PM
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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Rileybowler

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2010, 09:47:02 PM »
The palm of your hand has to cover the thumb hole so if you flip the ball you will not be covering it so it is illegal
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Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name

J_w73

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2010, 10:13:34 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
That is false. If it is a rule no one is enforcing it. As long as you use your same hand it doesn't matter what side of the ball you are using. I have been bowling with a guy for 10 years that uses his thumb for strikes balls and all left side spares but anything on the right he flips the ball over and palms it creating a strong backup ball that looks like a left hander is throwing it but he's using his right hand. Does this for 10 pins and most anything on the right.


ok.. so this guy has been cheating for 10 years and no one has called him on it..

doesn't make anything false...


--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185


How is the guy cheating? As long as he uses his dominant hand for both shots it's not cheating if I read the rule right.


The ball must be within specification as the ball rests in the bowlers hand but all holes do not need to be used for gripping purposes during a delivery."


I would say Kidlost explained it pretty well..


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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
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Robadat

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Re: flipping a ball
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2010, 11:15:34 AM »
quote:
Note that the ball must be in specification for balance
and hole requirements as the ball rests in the bowler’s
hand. A ball may be in specification if oriented one particular
way but not another. Compare examples E and H
From the  Equipment Spec manual  page I-5

If you "flip" the ball around, the static weights most likely will be out of specs and the ball would be illegal to use that way.
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