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Author Topic: Legal Sandbagging  (Read 4077 times)

Atochabsh

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Legal Sandbagging
« on: August 27, 2009, 05:14:59 AM »
So USBC says....."A player started league bowling right handed, but later decided to use a two-handed appraoch.  Is this a change of delivery and in violation of rule 118b?......No, as long as all deliveries are made with the right hand, this would not be a violation of rule 118b"

So lets say you are a 200 ave. bowler.  You try two-handed and can only manage around 140.  You establish a league avreage two-handed.  Then when it comes to handicap tournaments you use one hand.  SIMPLE.  

Erin
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Atochabsh

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2009, 12:29:11 AM »
quote:
It's no different than someone like me, who hadnt bowled in a few yrs, but last yr started back up... Well through most of the first half of the league, I was averaging like low 180s  

yet i could of easily averaged alot higher...... But by the end of the yr I was up over a 200avg on this second shift league.


It is different because the intent is not there.  Most improving bowlers have one year to enter tournaments at a lower average and even then many might be rerated if the tournament is a monthly repeating type.  But come next year, unless you delibertly bowl under your ability your average will level off, as it has the second half of the league season you are referring to.

Erin

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Bill Thomas

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2009, 07:05:11 AM »
Remember USBC says that two-handers like Osku, Belmonte, and Schaub are not really two-handers since one hand is dominant at the release.  Just more BS from USBC.
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Nbgiant25

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2009, 08:57:19 AM »
You only have to worry about that if you bowl in tourneys in which bowlers are not subject to a re-rate of their average... And if you bowl in those, then its your own fault.
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pinspeaker

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2009, 09:14:49 AM »
quote:
You only have to worry about that if you bowl in tourneys in which bowlers are not subject to a re-rate of their average... And if you bowl in those, then its your own fault.
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Agreed.  There are other ways as well.  There was one guy in our area who use to bowl league with a plastic ball but would bring in 8 brand new reactive balls to tournaments.  He got away with one tournament in our area and was banned from bowling anything else.  Its up to the people to monitor this stuff.  Happens once,  lesson learned.  Happens twice, shame on you.
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Atochabsh

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2009, 12:43:35 PM »
quote:
You only have to worry about that if you bowl in tourneys in which bowlers are not subject to a re-rate of their average... And if you bowl in those, then its your own fault.


lets say you hold an open tournament and folks come to bowl from a couple associations away.  How are you to know that their average is established using their right, left or two hands?  There's no place on the membership application for it.  Secretaries do not notate a change in hand delivery unless its been voted on in the league.  

The only way you would know is if someone has personal knowledge and witness of how a particular bowler bowls.  So when you enter a tournament you are hoping that those that need to be rerated will be, but how do you know?  All of a sudden you are bowling and the guy next to you shooting 190s has a 130 average.  Then someone might mention "oh yeah, I saw him bowling in X league and he was using two hands then".  Since USBC allows two handed bowlers to use one or two hands at their will, its not a change of delivery.  

quote:
There was one guy in our area who use to bowl league with a plastic ball but would bring in 8 brand new reactive balls to tournaments. He got away with one tournament in our area and was banned from bowling anything else. Its up to the people to monitor this stuff.


This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about.  And every tournament there seems to be a couple that have found a way to come in with a lower average then their best ability.  And the association does try to keep an eye on it.  Which is why I brought this whole thing up.  Its already been mentioned to us at the assoc. level, that someone is going to be trying the "two handed" sandbagging method.  Just when you think you've caught one scam, they come up with another one.  

Erin
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JD74

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2009, 01:15:42 PM »
Im doing the opposite this year, 215-220 average 2 handed, about 180-190 1 handed (I do it as a joke) but doing a league season with it this year. I've been bowling 2 handed for 15 years and 1 handed for about a month, never threw 1 handed ever before that.
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Kid Jete

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2009, 01:17:13 PM »
People can sand bag all they want.  Same on the golf course.  I'm not the one that has to go home and admit to myself that I'm a no talent hack that has to cheat to compete.  And hell it would suck to be a sandbagger for some of the guys on this site because they couldn't come here and FIGJAM all over themselves without getting called out.
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backupball

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2009, 01:30:09 PM »
Is it sandbagging when you choose to bowl at a low scoring house?
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Atochabsh

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2009, 01:56:22 PM »
quote:
Im doing the opposite this year, 215-220 average 2 handed, about 180-190 1 handed (I do it as a joke) but doing a league season with it this year. I've been bowling 2 handed for 15 years and 1 handed for about a month, never threw 1 handed ever before that.


So USBC says that you can bowl 21 games one handed, establish a lower average, and then bowl two handed in any tournament as long as you do not change your domminant hand.  And its a fine joke indeed

And besides the problem with living with yourself knowing you have delibertly used an artificially low average or not is the general perception of bowling tournaments.  We are constantly seeing a drop in participation and this is the main reason.  People don't think they have a chance because there's always someone sandbagging somehow.  


Edited on 8/30/2009 1:58 PM
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nerdytoes

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2009, 07:38:49 PM »
2 handed bowler look stupid..
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jls

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Re: Legal Sandbagging
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2009, 10:08:23 AM »
quote:
Everyone should just bowl scratch.  Then the truth comes out.
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Starting 5:
1. Hammer Cherry Vibe
2. Raw Hammer Psycho
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4. Ebonite NVD
5. Columbia 300 Blackberry Burst White Dot

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I agree,  everyone bowlscratch...  You pit your 5 bowlers against their 5 bowlers and bowl match play...

You place your high average bowler 5th and they do the same.. Then the next highest 4th, then 1st, then 2nd and then 3rd...  They do the same with their lineup...No pins....

ya right....


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