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Author Topic: forward roll and backend reaction  (Read 15270 times)

Applejacks

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forward roll and backend reaction
« on: February 10, 2015, 08:39:44 AM »
Ive been working on my release with my coach and he taught me to do more forward or end over end roll but i don't see that much backend reaction. Do i need more side roll or is there a way to get more backend with forward roll? Is it the layout or the surface that i need different? Right now using a hyroad pearl at 1500 + polish with pin over ring but i don't see that much backend from it right now
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JustRico

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 09:16:28 AM »
How can an object do two things at once?
If you take a car tire and it is going end over end, it won't change direction...the steering wheel has to turn to change direction...thus if you want the bowling ball to change direction in the back end it has to be rotating in that direction to accomplish
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BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 09:36:53 AM »
^^^ Well put.^^^

Once it encounters friction the ball will travel the direction of it's rotation.  You apply that rotation, whether it be end-over-end or some side roll.  If you're right handed then for the ball to travel left your fingers will need to be rotating to the right.

Have you watched guys roll reactive balls dead straight?  They are going right up the back of the ball (end-over-end). 

Forward roll will be much more stable, while side rotation will allow the ball to change direction.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 09:39:12 AM by notclay »
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ImBackInTheGame

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 09:42:50 AM »
When you say end over end, are you putting zero rotation on it?  If so, the ball will just go straight.

My "A" game is a more forward roll, not a lot of rotation.  I don't see the violent backend reaction I see from many other bowlers, but I don't run into over/under issues that they encounter since a more forward roll tends to blend the pattern.  You need to be able to change that rotation depending on what part of the lane you are playing and what the lane is giving you in order to become a complete player.  On a house shot, it doesn't matter because you can attack it from anywhere, but challenge and sport conditions you need that versatility.
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strikeking

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 11:14:03 AM »
The ideal motion is forward roll with a slight axis tilt in the direction you want the ball to travel.  That being said, roll is only effective if you have rotation. If you want pin action, you must give the ball "heavy" roll. You do this by having giving the ball more rotation forward than it is using to travel down the lane.  Like  dragster when it takes off down the track. The wheels are spinning faster than the car is going. You impart this heavy forward roll with your fingers at the release point at the bottom of the swing. Old timers used to do this with an upward lifting motion at release. Today they do it at the bottom of the swing.
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Strikeking

trash heap

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2015, 11:26:43 AM »
Won't a ball still turn some because of the core. Most bowling balls are not balanced.
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avabob

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2015, 11:49:41 AM »
Back end reaction is over rated.  Forward roll keeps the ball in play on a wider range of conditions, and the carry can still be very good if your speed and rev rate match up.  Watch the guys playing the Badger pattern on tv.  They are blowing racks playing fall back ( basically a straight ball ) at 17 board.

It is not how much a ball hooks, but how hard it is trying to move on the back end.  Even your end over end probably still has 15-20 degrees of axis rotation.  A small move with lots of energy ( rev rate ) out hits a big back end move that is burning out
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 11:52:32 AM by avabob »
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ImBackInTheGame

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2015, 11:52:59 AM »
Quote from: trash heap on February 10, 2015, 11:26:43 AM
Won't a ball still turn some because of the core. Most bowling balls are not balanced.


The core strength is a minor piece in ball reaction.  I can flatten my wrist and throw any ball dead straight.
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Applejacks

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2015, 11:58:25 AM »
Quote from: JustRico on February 10, 2015, 09:16:28 AM
How can an object do two things at once?
If you take a car tire and it is going end over end, it won't change direction...the steering wheel has to turn to change direction...thus if you want the bowling ball to change direction in the back end it has to be rotating in that direction to accomplish

Sorry still new to the game I meant to say end over end roll is what I have i think i have about 20-30 degrees rotation?
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trash heap

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2015, 01:29:36 PM »
Anyone try this experiment. Next time your out open bowling. Take out your biggest hooking ball you have. Try to throw straight down board 2 and see if you can only hit the 10 pin. The ball must hit board 2 after you release the ball. If the ball stays on board 2 it should miss the 6 pin. If it hits the 6 pin at all, the ball turned.

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xrayjay

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2015, 01:35:42 PM »
Quote from: trash heap on February 10, 2015, 01:29:36 PM
Anyone try this experiment. Next time your out open bowling. Take out your biggest hooking ball you have. Try to throw straight down board 2 and see if you can only hit the 10 pin. The ball must hit board 2 after you release the ball. If the ball stays on board 2 it should miss the 6 pin. If it hits the 6 pin at all, the ball turned.



that part of the lanes, the edges tilt up in some houses. I don't know the term, but when I used to tape down a quarter down lane for practice, the lane guy showed me this. and why the ball hangs on when a bad shots is thrown to help keep the ball from going into the channel.

playing the twig for ten pin sounds like fun...lol side action game
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milorafferty

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2015, 01:36:30 PM »
Quote from: trash heap on February 10, 2015, 01:29:36 PM
Anyone try this experiment. Next time your out open bowling. Take out your biggest hooking ball you have. Try to throw straight down board 2 and see if you can only hit the 10 pin. The ball must hit board 2 after you release the ball. If the ball stays on board 2 it should miss the 6 pin. If it hits the 6 pin at all, the ball turned.



You mean if it doesn't go into the gutter? I would wager that half the people(probably way more than that) that post here can't throw a ball down the two board. I doubt that most of them can even throw it down the 5 board.
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xrayjay

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2015, 01:38:49 PM »
Quote from: milorafferty on February 10, 2015, 01:36:30 PM
Quote from: trash heap on February 10, 2015, 01:29:36 PM
Anyone try this experiment. Next time your out open bowling. Take out your biggest hooking ball you have. Try to throw straight down board 2 and see if you can only hit the 10 pin. The ball must hit board 2 after you release the ball. If the ball stays on board 2 it should miss the 6 pin. If it hits the 6 pin at all, the ball turned.



You mean if it doesn't go into the gutter? I would wager that half the people(probably way more than that) that post here can't throw a ball down the two board. I doubt that most of them can't even throw it down the 5 board.

Milo, the twig is not longer an option to many lol...
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Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

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milorafferty

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2015, 02:34:53 PM »
Quote from: xrayjay on February 10, 2015, 01:38:49 PM
Quote from: milorafferty on February 10, 2015, 01:36:30 PM
Quote from: trash heap on February 10, 2015, 01:29:36 PM
Anyone try this experiment. Next time your out open bowling. Take out your biggest hooking ball you have. Try to throw straight down board 2 and see if you can only hit the 10 pin. The ball must hit board 2 after you release the ball. If the ball stays on board 2 it should miss the 6 pin. If it hits the 6 pin at all, the ball turned.



You mean if it doesn't go into the gutter? I would wager that half the people(probably way more than that) that post here can't throw a ball down the two board. I doubt that most of them can't even throw it down the 5 board.

Milo, the twig is not longer an option to many lol...

Man, ain't that the truth. I love when my PBA league has Wolf or Cheeta. Half the league is automatically screwed. LOL Of course, the same half of the league can't deal with Badger or Scorpion either.
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Joker-1

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Re: forward roll and backend reaction
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2015, 03:14:13 PM »
Quote from: trash heap on February 10, 2015, 01:29:36 PM
Anyone try this experiment. Next time your out open bowling. Take out your biggest hooking ball you have. Try to throw straight down board 2 and see if you can only hit the 10 pin. The ball must hit board 2 after you release the ball. If the ball stays on board 2 it should miss the 6 pin. If it hits the 6 pin at all, the ball turned.

just tried it.. went brooklyn
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