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Author Topic: Had a little "issue" at league tonight - rules issue inside...  (Read 1460 times)

mumzie

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Had a little "issue" at league tonight - rules issue inside...
« on: January 22, 2009, 04:21:30 PM »
I bowl in a very casual, non-serious mixed league with hubby and friends on Tuesday night. We pay a total of $14 per night, and about $3 or so goes to the prize fund.

The secretary distributed the "prize list" tonight for everyone to vote "yes" or "no". This was only a list of the extra $$ paid for high game, series, whether these people get money or trophies, that kind of thing. It only added up to a few hundred dollars - if that... Point money was not mentioned anywhere on the sheet.

I think this is our 4th year in that league. Either I've never noticed, or always been in Medford for the PBA the week this gets circulated. Anyway - I didn't sign the sheet (wrote 'abstain for further discussion'), and took it down to the secretary. I tried to discuss the omission with her, and got "well,we've always done it this way", and "I don't understand what you mean, we never know how much per point until the end", and so on.

I feel that this prize fund document is the "contract" between the league officers and the members, stating what will be paid out for what, and gives the members a full accounting of their money. The secretary claims that that's not necessary, and doesn't have to be done.

When we finished bowling, I called our local association manager, who stated that I was correct. I then went to the league president, and voiced my concern. Now - it's not about the money - there isn't much in this league, and it's not a big deal. What it is about is integrity, doing things the right way, and protecting the rear ends of the league officers, because if anyone cried foul, they would be accused of acting improperly.

While I was talking with the president, the SPOUSE of the secretary came over and yelled at me "don't you understand the difference between individual awards and prize fund", and "they've always done it this way, so it has to be ok", and "if I really felt strongly about it, I could do it next year"...
The league president then came over and told me that the SPOUSE was really upset, because everyone was bugging the secretary tonight, wondering where the rest of the money was going to go!!! (so I guess I wasn't alone, after all).

I suggested a meeting next week, to present an amended prize fund to be voted on, which would contain an estimated amount for point money to be awarded. Of course, if we lose bowlers, have vacancies, etc, this amount would be adjusted at the end of the season. This would save everyone's face, and protect both the league members and officers.

My issues:
1. When the prize fund is voted on - should there be more than one proposal, or is just one ok?
2. Why is the spouse of the league secretary involved? That person doesn't hold any office in the league.
and
3. If everyone else was confused, why am I the person being attacked? Is it because I know what I'm talking about? (and I didn't mention calling our assoc. manager to anyone but the league president...)

thoughts?
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Uncle Crusty

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Re: Had a little "issue" at league tonight - rules issue inside...
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 12:31:24 AM »
1). One would think there should be, at minimum, two choices. There would be no sense voting if there were only one choice. Plus, people's opinions of the prize fund differ depending on where they are in the standings. Bottom feeders wouldn't be happy with a prize fund that was top heavy, and people near the top of the standings wouldn't necessarily support a more even money distribution. One of each, put it to a vote, and no one can complain.

2). Because he/she is clueless.

3). Wrong place, wrong time, mumzie.

On a side note, I have never heard of a league where no one votes on the prize fund distribution with regard to year-end standings. It just seems asinine to put individual awards to a vote, but leave the team awards up to the discretion of the league officers only. Maybe it's just me (and mumzie)...
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Edited on 1/23/2009 1:31 AM

JessN16

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Re: Had a little "issue" at league tonight - rules issue inside...
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 02:31:32 AM »
Answers:

1) The casual mixed league my wife and I bowl on appoints a prize committee that is tasked with giving three options. No more, no less. All three are distributed and everyone on the league gets a vote, not just team captains. It's painless and even though our league has 96 bowlers I've never heard a complaint. This is the system your league needs to copy, but see No. 3 for why I don't think it will.

2) He/she has no standing, and I sympathize with you. There's really no easy way to tell someone like that to buzz off without starting a confrontation, but my suggestion would be, the next time he/she raises the issue, say, "I'm sorry your husband/wife feels put upon, but that sometimes comes with the job. I'm not trying to make trouble for you but you need to have this formally settled or you might open yourself up to legal liability. Usually when someone hears those words they will listen to just about anything you have to say.

3) Your league has iffy leadership at best. I'm fortunate in that my league has solid, veteran leadership. The same speech that worked for No. 2 might work here as well, if you want to take the time to explain to them why "we've always done it that way" isn't a defense you can use either in court or in front of the USBC, and that if they continue to operate in that way, they'll probably be in front of one or the other at some point.

Also, get your association officers involved. It helps.

Jess

shelley

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Re: Had a little "issue" at league tonight - rules issue inside...
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 06:10:54 AM »
I'm pretty sure you're supposed to have a full prize list distributed early in the season to everyone.  The president is supposed to appoint a prize fund committee who makes proposals, just like Jess says.  If the secretary is the only one doing it, and only offering one choice, then the league is doing it wrong.

"Oh, we won't know how much 'til the end" is not an excuse.  There are a hundred factors why a complete payout list might not be accurate, too.  Teams quit, new teams are added, and those have to be accounted for at the end, whether you pay points or a set amount per place.  But you can easily estimate the prize fund at the start of the season and every penny of it has to be accounted for in the proposals.

As for the secretary's spouse, simply ask if that person is a member of the league.  If not, ask why it's any of their business.  We've got a busybody wife of one of the bowlers in my men's league.  She's complained about league practices several times in the past (drinking, nude playing cards, even crying foul on a matter that the two teams involved didn't care about).  When she's asked what business it is of hers, she shuts right up.

Generating prize funds isn't that hard.  There are several programs and spreadsheets for doing it.  Even a one-man prize fund committee could generate 50 proposals in a matter of minutes.  No excuse for the secretary to make one proposal.

SH

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Re: Had a little "issue" at league tonight - rules issue inside...
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 07:07:02 AM »
mumzie,

I agree with you on each point. If the officers had nothing to hide then there would be no reason to be upset with any queries regarding prize fund. Maybe they should be voted out at the end of the season, and a league policy adopted to discuss this issue before each season starts.

It's not difficult to have a "projected prize fund" in place by the 2nd week of bowling. You know ahead of time what lineage is and approximate number of league bowlers.

You've done nothing except ask for some accountability from those who have an obligation to treat league funds in a fiduciary capacity.



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charlest

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Re: Had a little "issue" at league tonight - rules issue inside...
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 07:37:50 AM »
The problem with these little "empires" is that people are sensitive to "apparent" threats to themselves (and their spouses). Once they do things for so long, it appears to be the only "RIGHT" way to do it whether it is legal, fair or ethical IN REALITY has no bearing in their minds.

Oh, by the way, I do agree with all you said. It happens in every league that I have EVER been in, whether it's an $11 per night mixed handicap or a $30 per night men's scratch "premium" (ha!) league.

Heck, even most people get all outraged when they see you use any liquid to clean a ball during bowling, Yelling and Screaming at the top of their lungs, "Hey, that's illegal!" They don't even believe the writing on the bottle saying it's legal. They never saw anyone do it. Therefore it must be wrong.

Ignorance is bliss, and you will pay the price. After all, you "attacked her husband's/wife's inetgrity." You want to protect everyone else, but they don't really care.

There's more than a little truth in the saying, No good deed goes unpunished, but good luck in your battle and the war.
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Edited on 1/23/2009 8:39 AM
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Had a little "issue" at league tonight - rules issue inside...
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2009, 07:52:08 AM »
Judging by the reaction you got I'd want see the audit committee report on the leagues money.Possibly demand a auditing of the books right now.
There should be a projected prizelist by now. They could be skimming money.

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Gazoo

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Re: Had a little "issue" at league tonight - rules issue inside...
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2009, 07:59:09 AM »
"SPOUSE was really upset, because everyone was bugging the secretary tonight, wondering where the rest of the money was going to go!!!"

Probably towards some jewelry purchases.
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Had a little "issue" at league tonight - rules issue inside...
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2009, 08:02:19 AM »
quote:
My issues:
1. When the prize fund is voted on - should there be more than one proposal, or is just one ok?
2. Why is the spouse of the league secretary involved? That person doesn't hold any office in the league.
and
3. If everyone else was confused, why am I the person being attacked? Is it because I know what I'm talking about? (and I didn't mention calling our assoc. manager to anyone but the league president...)


in regard to
1-It would depend on what is in your league rules in regard to the prizelists. A prize committee can present just one for approval by the league if that's how your rules are set up.
2-He could be worried they might get caught embezzling fund.
3-Because you were the first one to speak up and question something

USBC Rules-
Rule 117 – Prizes
117a. Prize List
The prize committee shall submit one or more prize lists for consideration within five weeks after the start of
the season. The prize list shall:
1. Comply with any rules that have been adopted by the league.


2. Be approved by the board of directors unless the league rules provide for its adoption by the membership.
After approval, the prize list may be changed only with the written consent of every team captain
or designated representative.
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Edited on 1/23/2009 9:12 AM
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