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Author Topic: Free arm swing  (Read 5474 times)

MonkeyBoy

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Free arm swing
« on: August 23, 2004, 11:03:46 PM »
Im currently reading John Jowdy's Bowling Execution book, and it goes on about a free arm swing...

The theory of it sounds good, but how do you know if your actually doing it?

what are the signs... or is it just that mentally you'll know?
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Left-Factor

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2004, 09:56:57 AM »
Don't really where Norm Duke or Mike Aulby muscle the ball.
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scotts33

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2004, 10:13:43 AM »
Here's where I am coming from..I am saying there is room for both there is no one way for everybody.  There are some pretty good bowlers with somewhat muscled arm swings that compete week to week against the best on toguht lane conditions.  I think it has a lot to do with release not just arm swing.  One should factor than in also.

I've watched Weber in person at midwest regionals he does muscle the ball to some extent when lane conditions dictate.  Because he comes out with an open hand release does not mean he doesn't force the ball when he needs too.

What about Walter Ray or Mika?  Are they free or somewhat muscled?  I say muscled more than free.  Walter has won beaucoup tournaments as did Mika last yaar.  In my mind these are not totally free arm swings on tough PBA conditions.

Robert Smith has won what a couple now...not sure.  Guess that's pretty good in my book.  Better than nothing.  

I do believe in a freer <not sure if that's a word> arm swing more than a totally muscled one.  JMO.

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Nodsleinad

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2004, 10:15:21 AM »
We can agree on that for sure.....

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jjweb

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2004, 11:20:39 AM »
What about the height of a free backswing? I briefly worked with a coach on developing a freer arm swing. No matter where I start the ball in my approach it still ends up waist high(6' tall). Is there a problem with having a low backswing?
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Strider

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2004, 03:16:04 PM »
If your backswing is only waist high, it's not very free.

You obviously need some muscle to get your backswing over your head, but the more free it is on the downswing, the more consistent you'll be.
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T-GOD

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2004, 05:44:36 PM »
First of all, anyone with any loft, is muscling the ball. Because, they're squeezing and/or hitting up on the ball, using muscle to loft it out there on the lane. So, anyone whose ball lands at the dots or beyond, is muscling the ball. That's over 50% of the bowlers, maybe more.

In a perfect pendulum swing, there will be only 1 speed. If you lifted the ball to the height of your backswing and just let it fall, I'm not sure what the exact ball speed going down the lane would be, but it wouldn't be very fast. Yes, you can increase speed to some degree with a faster approach, but I doubt very much, with a perfect pendulum swing/free armswing, that the ball speed would be much more than 16 mph.

In order to get a higher speed, especially ones approaching 20 (most of the pro's 18-20 mph) one has to be "pulling the ball through" on the downswing. This is muscling the ball.

If you have a high rev rate, over 400 rpms, then there's no way you can not muscle the ball, without the ball hooking too much on most of todays conditions.

So, if you really want to have a truly free armswing today, you better be a fudger..!! I stand by my original statement/s..!! =:^D

jjweb

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2004, 08:02:41 PM »
Strider, I do not use any muscle in my push away or downswing. Actually, the height of my backswing is a little higher then I thought. I had someone watch me and they told me it's 'almost' parallel to my shoulder. I also keep all the ball weight in my left hand, until I push away and transfer it to my right. Since I've been using a free arm swing, it destroyed my release (bordered on a full roller release). Forcing me to wear my pro release supporter again, which is fine by me. Now I can at least come out of the ball properly and get the finger lift and turn I need.
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!

Edited on 8/25/2004 8:06 PM

Strider

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2004, 09:03:22 PM »
That's odd.

Ron Clifton worked on freeing up my arm swing.  I now have more ball speed, slightly less strain on my arthritic wrist, and slightly more revs.  Anyway,  a shoulder high back swing sounds just fine.  Maybe you're turning your hand early because something else in your timing changed?
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jjweb

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2004, 09:17:16 PM »
I've always come around the side of the ball alot, but it's never been a problem. I don't get it! But now that I'm back to using my wrist supporter everything is fine, or at least hope it is. Maybe I was flattening my wrist in the downswing? I really don't know.
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!

Edited on 8/25/2004 9:10 PM

jjweb

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2004, 11:20:41 PM »
What are your thoughts on using a wrist supporter and having a free arm swing?  Or at least a constricting supporter like the Pro Release, especially for someone who can't cup the ball during the downswing?
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fishnic

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2004, 11:46:42 PM »
what really helped me when i was working on a free armswing and letting the ball do the work and i would drop the ball instead of a good push out, first thing was to find a good coach but what really helped me was my coach video taped me and i could see the bend in my elbow, and since then he video taped me again and it looks alot better,more consistency


Strider

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2004, 02:24:18 AM »
quote:
What are your thoughts on using a wrist supporter and having a free arm swing?  Or at least a constricting supporter like the Pro Release, especially for someone who can't cup the ball during the downswing?
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!


It's the same.  I use a Robby Revs.  My arthritis won't let me throw for very long without some support on the back of my wrist.  If you're just getting used to a support again, give it some time.  When I first got used to bulky supports, it took me a long time to learn how to release a ball using one.  Your whole are wants to act as one piece.  It's very easy for me to get lazy and turn the ball early using my wrist guard.
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MonkeyBoy

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2004, 04:40:38 AM »
My timing is good, and I'm not lofting it, I just need to get lower to the lane.

I’m 6'7" (with very long legs for some reason) so I've gotta do like a crab and get down on the floor, up until recently I use to release with the ball about knee height, hence the bang.

And T-GOD, I thought lofting was all to do with timing, and NOT muscling the ball, i.e., its just cus that person is releasing it late.

Say you've got a pendulum swinging, the point of the release determines the release angle, ergo the amount of lift in the projection, and I would also say that the height initial release would determine the height of the opposite peaks height, if this is true , how can the swing be the same speed? how?
A lower starting point initiates a lower height on the opposite peak.

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MonkeyBoy

"Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose, it's how drunk you get."  
- H. J. Simpson


Edited on 8/26/2004 4:36 AM

Jeffrevs

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2004, 08:25:13 AM »
quote:
That's odd.

Ron Clifton worked on freeing up my arm swing.  I now have more ball speed, slightly less strain on my arthritic wrist, and slightly more revs.  


Aside from the arthritic wrist....this comment holds true for me too when I first saw my coach!
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T-GOD

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Re: Free arm swing
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2004, 08:46:03 AM »
Monkey, yes, lofting the ball has to do with timing, but when you're out of time, you're gripping the ball more, which means you're muscling it.

Hey, I'm all for a free armswing (and a lot of revs). And it should be LOCKED (at the elbow) also. I'm just saying that ones game usually developes to the condition.

With todays conditions, and equipment, it's hard to use a free armswing with a lot of revs. It's also hard to get over 400 rpm's without muscling the ball. =:^D