Author Topic: Rico and 2-Hand Questions (Read 3001 times)

Adrenaline · « **on:** June 01, 2009, 05:16:55 AM »

(This is mainly pertaining to bowling one handed)
First off, are there certain balls that benefit more from a Rico drilling than others? Since Rico is intended to give a very smooth, predictable and continues motion, would earlier rolling balls be better suited for the layout? Would putting Rico on a long skid/flip ball, be counter productive? Does the Rico on early rolling balls, risk being too early, and burning up?
Just for reference, I'm thinking of Rico'ing an AMF Mega Friction. Anyone tried this yet?

Now, do any of you 2 handers have experience with the Rico layout? What kind of difference do you see, how well does it work, does it give you more forgiveness, or does there end up being not enough snap power at the pocket?

Do any 2 handers use layouts that differ from a normal 1 handed layout? I've just been using my current balls 2 handed, but I can only assume that I'm using a completely different Track, and Pap. Have you used this new track/Pap and used them to apply a new layout on a ball, and if so do you notice much difference, if any at all? Do you even need to move anything, or does the ball seem to carry somewhat the same rotation you had 1 handed?

Do the same principles apply to 2 handed when it comes to drilling. Pin up for length, down for early roll, Mass Bias positions pin-pap distance, val angles etc, or do you notice it's magnified, or you have more room to play with the extra revs, and drillings aren't even as critical as they are for 1 handed?

Instead of having different balls for certain lengths, have you tried having 2 of the same ball, same drills, but 2 separate weights. That way you can always expect the same roll, reaction and back end, but throwing 1 pound lighter allows you to get more length for the 3rd game, or whenever the lanes dry up? Switching weights on one handed can throw off your swing and timeing, but it seems a 2 hander could make the switch and it wouldn't have any effect on your swing/timing.

On the Technical side... There's been plenty of debates over the legality of 2 handed, what constitutes a 'normal' delivery vs approach etc. More importantly I'm worried about what you guys think, of using the 2 handed style on the first ball, and 1 hand for spares. I know it's currently legal, but do any of you foresee this changing in the future?

I'm also looking for footwork help. I can't seem to find a comfortable approach 2 handed. Each time I do a little something different, and end up with these little stutter steps in between. Currently it isn't having any negative effect, but I'd like to get into a repeatable process to build consistency over time. I know it's going to be different for everyone, but I'm looking for a few things to try, to maybe find a solid start point to build from. Where you start on the approach, forward/back as well as side/side, how many steps, when you pushoff/swing etc.

And finally, I'm curious if anyone has or knows of a full explanation, of top hand positions, and how they all effect the ball motion, what to expect to see with each, or how they can be applied to adjust your game?

Sorry for the Wall of Text, appreciate your time if you've made it this far.
Thanks,
Kenny
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Virtual Gravity
Twisted Fury
Black Widow Solid
WTB used: Rogue Cell
WTB used: Amf Mega Friction

JonDaggett · « **Reply #1 on:** June 01, 2009, 01:41:50 PM »

why did you choose to switch styles all of a sudden?
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http://jondaggett.bowlspace.com/ check out my bowling vids

Oskuposer · « **Reply #2 on:** June 01, 2009, 01:56:07 PM »

Going from one handed to 2 handed is fine as long as it is still on one side of your body. I bowl righty 2 handed or 1 handed depending on the conditions and as long as your left hand fingers are not in the ball it does not matter. I just got a new video cam and will be making instructional videos both 1 handed and 2 handed. When I come back from vegas I will work on the videos and I can say that I am a silver level coach.
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Kiall Hill
Visionary test staff

Adrenaline · « **Reply #3 on:** June 01, 2009, 02:03:42 PM »

@JonDaggett
I've been bowling 2 handed for a while just casually, but was never allowed to do it in league because my Mother and Grandfather just assumed I was f'n around. Now that Belmonte hit main stream, it's no longer considered "f'n around" and they accept it as an actual style.
I'm not changing because of Belmonte, but he's the one who has opened eyes to the older generation of bowlers. I'm decent with 1 hand, but I've never really been able to break my 185 avg that way. I am pretty rev-challenged, and I have consistency problems with one hand. I've tried for 2 full years to adjust my 1 hand swing to increase my average and scores. Switched to a 4 step, free arm swing, deep knee bend, balance at the line, follow through, cupped wrist, stay under the ball, and everything. And I've just hit a glass ceiling, where I can't seem to improve any further. I don't have the option of taking lessons because I'm in a small town, and the closest place I could go is a bit over 2 hours. I watch people with revs, and the power they have at the pins, not to mention, they have a lot more room to work with. Miss a little left/right and the revs will kick in, and still apply enough power to carry high/low pocket hits, where if I don't hit the pocket just right I'm chasing spares all night, to barely hit my average. On top of that, I enjoy throwing 2 handed. It's more fun for me personally. I figure now that I understand bowling more, I can try to apply what I know to be more consistent at a 2 handed approach and see if I have any success with it. I'll still throw all of my spares (minus the 4 or 7) 1 handed, and I don't plan on completely abandoning my 1 handed progress. I just want to try this out for a while on a more serious level, and see if it works for me, if not I can switch back at any time with no downfalls.
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Virtual Gravity
Twisted Fury
Black Widow Solid
WTB used: Rogue Cell
WTB used: Amf Mega Friction

Edited on 6/1/2009 2:06 PM

JonDaggett · « **Reply #4 on:** June 01, 2009, 02:14:35 PM »

quote:
@JonDaggett
I've been bowling 2 handed for a while just casually, but was never allowed to do it in league because my Mother and Grandfather just assumed I was f'n around. Now that Belmonte hit main stream, it's no longer considered "f'n around" and they accept it as an actual style.
I'm not changing because of Belmonte, but he's the one who has opened eyes to the older generation of bowlers. I'm decent with 1 hand, but I've never really been able to break my 185 avg that way. I am pretty rev-challenged, and I have consistency problems with one hand. I've tried for 2 full years to adjust my 1 hand swing to increase my average and scores. Switched to a 4 step, free arm swing, deep knee bend, balance at the line, follow through, cupped wrist, stay under the ball, and everything. And I've just hit a glass ceiling, where I can't seem to improve any further. I don't have the option of taking lessons because I'm in a small town, and the closest place I could go is a bit over 2 hours. I watch people with revs, and the power they have at the pins, not to mention, they have a lot more room to work with. Miss a little left/right and the revs will kick in, and still apply enough power to carry high/low pocket hits, where if I don't hit the pocket just right I'm chasing spares all night, to barely hit my average. On top of that, I enjoy throwing 2 handed. It's more fun for me personally. I figure now that I understand bowling more, I can try to apply what I know to be more consistent at a 2 handed approach and see if I have any success with it. I'll still throw all of my spares (minus the 4 or 7) 1 handed, and I don't plan on completely abandoning my 1 handed progress. I just want to try this out for a while on a more serious level, and see if it works for me, if not I can switch back at any time with no downfalls.

well thats pretty understandable. but just so u know the revs dont make the bowler just look at the 2 greats who bowl now walter ray and norm duke they are great everyone just isnt built for the power game. anyways im just blabbering i hope your 2 handed bowling becomes a success for you. and in terms of drilling you should be find with the same layouts you use normally for dry medium or heavy and anything in between
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Virtual Gravity
Twisted Fury
Black Widow Solid
WTB used: Rogue Cell
WTB used: Amf Mega Friction

Edited on 6/1/2009 2:06 PM

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http://jondaggett.bowlspace.com/ check out my bowling vids

JD74 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 01, 2009, 11:11:43 PM »

I have been bowling 2 handed for 15 years now, the layouts arent any different from 1 handed to 2 handed, when I need something for heavy oil I drill a ball strong, when I need it for dry I drill it for length and weak, its just the same thing as 1 handed layouts and drillings, you just use your 2 handed PAP.

I have tried the Rico layout and it works just fine, just had to change my release a little because I was clipping the finger holes when I first started throwing it.

As for footwork, the biggest thing with 2 handed is giving yourself room to clear your hips, a 2 hander cannot line up the same way as a 1 hander would because we have to give ourselves room on the lane to clear our hips to be able to hit the line, I bowl 1 handed every once in a while to mess around with it and when I play 10 1 handed I line up around 14, when I play 10 2 handed I line up around 20, this allows my body to be a little more tilted at the line and be able to clear my hips and still wind up hitting the same spot on the lane. That part is the hardest, I personally have a pretty smooth approach, I dont have that skip step that Osky and Belmo have.

Throwing 1 handed with spares is fine and legal, Osku does it on the European tour and in Weber Cup, as long as your using the same primary hand your fine.

Top hand positions- If you move the top hand to the front of the ball you will get low tilt and stay behind the ball more. If your hand is directly on top of the ball it will get you more turn and more revs. If your hand is on the left side of the ball it will give you a lot of tilt. This is the basics for when you first start.

For my approach I stand between the first and second set of dots, I take a 6 step approach to gain speed, I dont move the ball until after the 2nd step of my approach. I get the speed from using a 6 step approach instead of a normal approach, this is why I dont need the skip step that the others use. My first 3 steps are slow and the last 2 and slide are fast, the first 3 make sure that everything is balanced and timed correctly.

If you have anymore questions let me know.
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Lefty
300(5)
800(1)
Average 220+

http://ebonite.com/
BOWL TO WIN!

echidapus · « **Reply #6 on:** June 02, 2009, 10:31:29 PM »

When I go two handed, I become a full roller and my track goes over my thumb hole on some of my shots. I am considering having my thumbholes plugged on the balls that I don't use one handed anymore.

I have become skilled at throwing my spare ball for my first ball two handed. It's consistent and doesn't over hook. It's actually great practice for two handed on accuracy.
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High game 300, 298(no middle finger) 290, 290(no middle finger)
2 handed (279) 710 (279) (289) (280) (263) 3 months in
High series 804
High triplicate 774
High average 221
best game. when I was 6 I bowled a 158

I have a 16# morich awesome finish I want to trade. 1 season on it. I am looking for 15# stuff

JohnP · « **Reply #7 on:** June 03, 2009, 10:36:27 AM »

echidapus -- Be aware that the USBC static weight limits change for a ball with no thumb hole. The limit becomes no more than 1 oz imbalance between any two halves of the ball, you can go to bowl.com and look under equipment specifications to find this. I seriously doubt you will be able to simply plug a thumb hole and stay legal. You might try what one of my customers does - he wants a thumb hole that he can put his thumb in only to the first joint. He puts his fingers in and lays his hand on the ball like he would to throw it no thumb. We mark the location for the thumb and drill it with a lot of left lateral pitch, 1" (he's right handed). Works great for him, he is a full roller and when he throws it it looks like he's no-thumbing. -- JohnP

JD74 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 03, 2009, 02:23:59 PM »

quote:
echidapus -- Be aware that the USBC static weight limits change for a ball with no thumb hole. The limit becomes no more than 1 oz imbalance between any two halves of the ball, you can go to bowl.com and look under equipment specifications to find this. I seriously doubt you will be able to simply plug a thumb hole and stay legal. You might try what one of my customers does - he wants a thumb hole that he can put his thumb in only to the first joint. He puts his fingers in and lays his hand on the ball like he would to throw it no thumb. We mark the location for the thumb and drill it with a lot of left lateral pitch, 1" (he's right handed). Works great for him, he is a full roller and when he throws it it looks like he's no-thumbing. -- JohnP

I throw 2 handed and do the same thing, I throw it with just my thumb to the first joint, it works great and gives me a quick release with the thumb. But not a full roller track. The ball must have a thumb hole in it either way. I have seen some guys that use no thumb us a very tiny hole for the thumb, just to say there is a thumb hole.
--------------------
Lefty
300(5)
800(1)
Average 220+

http://ebonite.com/
BOWL TO WIN!

Author Topic: Rico and 2-Hand Questions (Read 3001 times)

Adrenaline

Rico and 2-Hand Questions

JonDaggett

Re: Rico and 2-Hand Questions

Oskuposer

Re: Rico and 2-Hand Questions

Adrenaline

Re: Rico and 2-Hand Questions

JonDaggett

Re: Rico and 2-Hand Questions

JD74

Re: Rico and 2-Hand Questions

echidapus

Re: Rico and 2-Hand Questions

JohnP

Re: Rico and 2-Hand Questions

JD74

Re: Rico and 2-Hand Questions