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Author Topic: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed  (Read 2417 times)

ccrider

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Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« on: September 17, 2008, 10:22:54 AM »
I have come to the conclusion that free arm swing is overrated. I have struggled trying to keep my armswing totally free with the end result being that my ball speed averages around 13.5 mph when my swing is totally free.

I do not have a naturally high backswing, and the only way to increase the speed and keep the swing "free" is to increase the height of my starting position and my backswing.

On the other hand, if I put some muscle, from my shoulder joint, into the swing, my speed goes up to 15 mph, without suffering a significant loss in accuracy and my average jumps from 165 to about 195, due to the increase in carry and the ability to get by with missing a little inside or outside with the increased speed on THS.

My brother pointed out to me that most of the guys that finesse the ball do it because they are not able to go to a power game. He has argued to me for months that I am naturally athletic, bench press 80 pounds over my weight, and that there is no reason for me to finesse the ball down the lane at 13 mph. Plus, he says it looks unnatural for me.

I have concluded that he is close to being right. He pointed out that WRW, and Chris Barnes for sure do not have a free arm swing.  

Just my thoughts. I do know that for me, on a THS, I can easily average 15 pins per game higher by simply throwing the ball with a little power. I am going to work on increasing my ball speed to see where the point of diminishing returns are.

BTW, I started this season with a freearm swing and bowled an impressive 455 three game series the first week. Last week, I shot a 598 series, with a 50 pin handicap.I had a 40 pin handicap last night and shot 215, 144, 205. The 144 game resulted from me refusing to put my kinetic down the second game, and going to a ball to get through the heads, they were dryyyyy.






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strikealot

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2008, 06:28:16 PM »
ummmmm, i would argue the fact that walter ray and barnes swing isnt free...but good luck with the muscle...just try not to grab the ball at the bottom of the swing...
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stealth

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2008, 06:44:39 PM »
You can thank your brother when you fail to improve. I think you should also try to punch yourself in your left eye on your follow through.(if you are righthanded) You should then be able to average over 200 on a league pattern and 160 on anything else.
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charlest

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2008, 06:47:40 PM »
Like "not gripping the ball" with your fingers, a "free armswing" in not really a misnomer, but more of an unerstanding that there will always be some degree of the use of the shoulder muscles in the armswing.

The problem has always been that many people use ONLY the shoulder muscles and a LOT of that, to control the ball and the placement of the ball into (not "onto") the lane.

Again, like using a relaxed grip and not "squeezing" the ball, it's all matter of relativiity. For a brick layer, yes, you shouldn't "squeeze" the ball. FOr most of the rest of us humans, a certain amount of gripping force is necessary to hold onto and to release the ball properly. In the same way, a certain amount of muscle is necessary to have enough ball speed. Good ball speed is a necessity in today's game.

Everything is relative.
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Rileybowler

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2008, 06:50:17 PM »
Nothing whatsoever wrong with using the shoulder joint in fact thats the correct way. Anybody that has a very high backswing uses muscle there is no way that ball is going that high without help
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Carl
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charlest

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2008, 06:50:42 PM »
quote:
Are you serious? Walter Ray and Chris both have free armswings. Most of the pro's have free armswings. Even Tommy Jones does and you see how much he puts on the ball. A lot of it is about timing and your leverage position at your release point. If these guys muscle the ball, how do you think they can bowl 25-30 games every week for 24 straight weeks and average what they avg. Its not a coincidence. Go and muscle your way to success at your THS.
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Edited on 9/17/2008 6:43 PM


You've got to be joking.
While Chris Barnes has a great armswing. It is relatively relaxed.
WRW has one of the most controlled armswings in the game. Control is the name of every aspect of his game. And he has made it work to exquisite perfection.

"Muscle" is, again, a relative term, not an absolute one in bowling.
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strikealot

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2008, 06:54:53 PM »
barnes has high backswing and i promise there isnt muscle in that swing....he keeps his thumbhole so tight if there was any muscle or swing he would never get out of the ball...and there is a difference between some muscle in the backswing and muscle on the downswing...downswing needs to be free
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Jay

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2008, 07:23:27 PM »
I think most people help the ball on the backswing.  I do a little bit even though I'm not really trying, but on the downswing I do my best to let gravity take over.  A free swing is usually your best friend because it allows you to manipulate your ball speed a little by raising or lowering the ball in your stance.  If you throw the ball harder, you tend to hit up on the ball and the attempt at raising ball speed that way is wasted.

Just my 2 cents on it.
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Moon57

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2008, 07:47:57 AM »
The height of the backswing in a free arm swing is dictated by your delivery foot speed. The shoulder is moving forward towards the foul line while the ball is dropping. This actually creates a higher backswing by moving the pivot point (shoulder) forward while the ball is moving ( once it bottoms out ) in the opposite direction.
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Grayson

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2008, 08:05:39 AM »
simply said:
What works works.

A famous bowling trainer once said that accuracy is in general higher with a free armswing and you do not spoil your release... in general.
But the very same person said to let it get up on the backswing freely and come down again... and then accelerate when you need speed...
Is this a 100& free armswing... for sure not... but you gain speed without sacrificing accuracy as long as you keep your arm on target.... shoulder stable... let it rip!
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chitown

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2008, 08:27:05 AM »
Chris Barnes has a free arm swing but WRW doesn't!  Got to WRW web site and read the questions and answers section he has on there.  Even he says he doesn't have a free arm swing and muscles the ball.

You don't have to be a text book bowler to be good.  WRW proves that everytime he bowls!  I for one feel that bowl what ever way gives you the best accuracy and carry.  If that means putting a lot of muscle into your swing then so be it!

I myself don't have a free armswing and muscle the ball.  I do pretty well making money in pots games at league using this approach on some very tough lane patterns.  Like I said, do what works for you.

Edited on 9/18/2008 8:31 AM
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chitown

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2008, 08:29:24 AM »
quote:
quote:
Are you serious? Walter Ray and Chris both have free armswings. Most of the pro's have free armswings. Even Tommy Jones does and you see how much he puts on the ball. A lot of it is about timing and your leverage position at your release point. If these guys muscle the ball, how do you think they can bowl 25-30 games every week for 24 straight weeks and average what they avg. Its not a coincidence. Go and muscle your way to success at your THS.
--------------------
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Edited on 9/17/2008 6:43 PM


You've got to be joking.
While Chris Barnes has a great armswing. It is relatively relaxed.
WRW has one of the most controlled armswings in the game. Control is the name of every aspect of his game. And he has made it work to exquisite perfection.

"Muscle" is, again, a relative term, not an absolute one in bowling.
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EXACTLY!  Totally agree!
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chitown

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2008, 08:29:37 AM »
quote:
Like "not gripping the ball" with your fingers, a "free armswing" in not really a misnomer, but more of an unerstanding that there will always be some degree of the use of the shoulder muscles in the armswing.

The problem has always been that many people use ONLY the shoulder muscles and a LOT of that, to control the ball and the placement of the ball into (not "onto") the lane.

Again, like using a relaxed grip and not "squeezing" the ball, it's all matter of relativiity. For a brick layer, yes, you shouldn't "squeeze" the ball. FOr most of the rest of us humans, a certain amount of gripping force is necessary to hold onto and to release the ball properly. In the same way, a certain amount of muscle is necessary to have enough ball speed. Good ball speed is a necessity in today's game.

Everything is relative.
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Well said!
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AngloBowler

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2008, 08:33:20 AM »
I think as long as you're accurate enough to do what you want to do, then go ahead and force it. A relaxed armswing is more consistent in its direction than one where you control the direction of the ball. It's not impossible to become a high-standard bowler with a forced swing, but it will take you a considerably longer time to do it. That is why the "free swing" is widely taught and adhered to.

In my opinion, as long as your swing is free on the forward swing, then it's fine, assuming you can "lift" your backswing straight.

Generally speaking, most people can't be accurate enough without having a relaxed arm during the forward swing which is why it's so widely taught and is so prevalent on the tour.
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FBM357

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Re: Freearm Swing and Ball Speed
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2008, 09:46:21 AM »
IMO, muscling is more a state of mind.  This like other sports, IMO, are based on the concept that 'less = more'.

Take baseball as an example (i.e. pitcher).  He doesn't 'guide' the ball, he simply throws it.  There's a very big difference between velocity and movement.  That's why you can have a pitcher who's fastball avg. between 88-91 appear to have more movement than someone throwing 95+.  Albeit, mechanics play a huge role as well, but relaxed arm can provide a combination of both (with higher percentage placed on relaxing as opposed to aiming/guiding).

Same principal with hitting.  If you swing from your natural side, tendencies lean towards muscling to a high degree.  Try swinging from the opposite side of the plate.  You'll notice less muscle (only because you're not trying to rip the cover off the ball) and a more level swing.

That being said, have you noticed when bowling you often throw the ball better the less you 'think' about it?  Same can be said for those who seem to bowl better after a few beers... LOL

Thtat is why we're always told to do what's natural.  May sometimes not be attractive, but can be efficient.

All about a relaxed state of mind....

Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth
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