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Author Topic: Frustrated  (Read 3351 times)

Dan Belcher

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Frustrated
« on: May 09, 2008, 12:06:41 AM »
Man, PBA Experience league patterns can be tough sometimes when you're a speed-dominant player.

Last night on the Cheetah, I just could not get the ball to recover from outside very well.  My 4000 sanded Total NV was strong enough to come back from the 2-3 board area, but was prone to coming in light and was very speed sensitive.  Everything else (stronger drilled Awesome Revs, weaker drilled Special Agent, Rico drilled Eraser Banshee) didn't have enough reaction off the dry to come back.  With those balls, I had to point the ball toward the pocket, and this left me with NO margin for error.  One board right, I left the 2-8 (and I missed the 2-8 every single time I shot at it last night, ouch)

Basically, I just had to grind out the first two games (167, 162) and wait for the lanes to open up some.  I was able to keep my speed up and get just enough reaction to get near the pocket the last two games for 200 and 222, and I wasn't even happy with those games since I missed a couple easy spares.

Every advice I read about the Cheetah talks about controlling the over-hook basically.  I fight the exact opposite problem -- I have trouble finding hook on it.  On other patterns, I have a little more room if I try to get the ball in, but the Cheetah at my house just punishes you if you have your breakpoint anywhere inside of the 4 board.  And going slow is NOT my game.  I tried slowing my ball speed from the 16.5-17mph bracket (Qubica speed) to 15mph, but my timing got all out of whack and I could not hit my mark or get anything on the ball at the bottom of the swing, which just created more problems.

Any other thoughts?

 

Phoneman

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2008, 08:20:47 AM »
From what I find you want something that has a slower response time off the friction.  A very smooth rolling ball will help on this pattern.  I have even used my plastic spare ball for a couple of games until the catty down gets where you need it to be.  Most people think that because there is so much back end area that you should try and swing the ball out to the dry all that does is make the oil transition away from the pocket and not towards it and will really trap you later in the block.  You need to play this pattern outside of 5 and transition the shot to carry down oil into the transition area.  It is not an easy pattern because accuracy is very imnportant with this pattern because there is no hold area until the pattern transitions.  You will find transtions and how you break down all of the PBA patterns is the key to shooting well.

Dan Belcher

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2008, 08:27:01 AM »
The problem is I'm not getting enough response to the dry.  The ball is going way too long before hooking.  I am having to lay the ball down right on top of the friction to have any hope of it making it back, no swing at all.  In fact, I'm having to play either right up the boards or point it toward the headpin some just to get it back to the pocket.  I can't just move my breakpoint left and stand further right since the Cheetah punishes you for doing this by giving you no margin for error, unlike most oil patterns.

Phoneman

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2008, 08:44:23 AM »
You mentioned that you have to play straight up the boards that is the correct way to play this pattern on fresh.  I would take your TNV to 200 abralon and put a light coat of polish on it and try that.  I have a Pin over Total Inferno w/ high gloss polish that works well on Cheetah and also my pin under twisted Fury worked ok once the transitions took effect.  I normally on THS play a swing from 17 to 7 with either ball but on cheetah I move way right and play straight down the five and swing it to the 2 board at 35 feet and watch it just roll back to the pocket.

Dan Belcher

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2008, 08:46:29 AM »
Yeah, I tried playing 5 to 2 last night.  I left the 2-8-10    (If you haven't watched a video of me bowling, my rev rate really sucks, it's only about 250)

LuckyLefty

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2008, 08:57:45 AM »
Ummmmm,  too long....4000 surface,, pins all up on all your displayed equipment....long pin to paps(I think)great for lanes with lots of findable friction.

It seems like lots of solutions.....1000 abralon with some polish may change things.  Some more flare, (often used by low rev high speed bowlers), pins slightly down.

As a lefty we often see lots of au jus when they want to flood us.  Lower pins like varients on revs leverage help us a lot.  ie pins down say an inch lower than the ring!

This may only be needed initially!  Just to give you an idea a couple of years ago on the even longer and wetter US Open pattern I think Randy Pederson used a pin that was as low as even with his grip center.

I don't think you need that low but it may make all the difference and then switch to one of your other balls with more surface than it has now.

Ideally you would have a lower pin one(say pin down) and then a second one with pin even with ring finger once the fresh au jus gets pounded out by your righty friends!  Naturally all balls would have more surface than you currently have(because what you have is NOT working).

There IS a solution.

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Phoneman

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2008, 09:00:37 AM »
Well than that is something you need to improve on.  Not just the REv rate but maybe the axis tilt will help.  One thing I just learned about is "grip presure".  Not knuckling the ball but squeezing it tighter while maintaining a correct grip will incease the amount of revs you put on the ball.  Try it by throwing a foot ball under hand straight up in the air.  Use ligth preassure then use firm grip preassure and you will see what I am talking about.

Dan Belcher

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2008, 09:01:36 AM »
Eraser Banshee is pin at grip center, actually.  At 2000 abralon, it labored to get back to the pocket once carrydown hit, though it was good in practice when the backends were fresh.  I tend to carry poorly with pin-down equipment, so I don't use them much anymore.  I also struggle with over-reaction off the dry with strongly drilled equipment, which ends up creating a bad over/under.  Yes, the ball can make it back to the pocket, but it also will leave me with a huge split if I miss just a hair.  (This is also why I hate polished equipment)

Dan Belcher

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2008, 09:02:34 AM »
quote:
Well than that is something you need to improve on.  Not just the REv rate but maybe the axis tilt will help.  One thing I just learned about is "grip presure".  Not knuckling the ball but squeezing it tighter while maintaining a correct grip will incease the amount of revs you put on the ball.  Try it by throwing a foot ball under hand straight up in the air.  Use ligth preassure then use firm grip preassure and you will see what I am talking about.
Really?  I get more revs when I completely relax my hand and use as little grip pressure as possible.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2008, 09:10:05 AM »
Pin in center is not what I am talking about.  That drilling is for overreating conditions.  You do not have that problem on this pattern according to your narrative.  And that pin is too far down.

Reactions on top hat will differ dramatically from these PBA patterns and have no relationship.  If you use your top hat reactions to analyze what drill patterns to use on the PBA patterns you will not make progress.

As to polish....who cares....if it doesn't work for you it doesn't work.  But lower your surface grit if you are going tooooo long.

To summarize what I am trying to say.  You are bursting thru the break point and have no reaction.  You are currently using very little surface, have lots of speed, have all pin ups, have little flare drilled in to the ball, (have one ball extreme pin down and little flare).  CHANGE something!

More surface, more pin, lower pin, something different will work!  I'm not there and don't know for sure exactly but I think slightly lower pin, slightly more surface, slightly more flare.  

But I know this....no changes = no better results.

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 5/9/2008 9:14 AM

Edited on 5/9/2008 9:15 AM
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Dan Belcher

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2008, 09:17:04 AM »
For what it's worth, the pin up gear all works fine on the other PBA patterns because I bring my breakpoint closer to the headpin without getting into a part of the lane where I have no miss room.

The Total NV and Special Agent and Awesome Revs actually all flare quite a bit, even with weaker drills.

I'm going to try lower surface, but I'm always leery about that since I rarely ever have good luck with anything sanded lower than 2000 even on heavier oil.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2008, 09:32:42 AM »
Try the 2000....it is the easiest.

One note...many have seperate arsenals for league and PBA patterns...I am one.

My stuff for PBA patterns does not ever hook as much as my league stuff.

As to pin downs and up....As a side release lefty(we face a lot more au jus and it stays)  I do recognize the difference between a 30 degree axis rotation player(you) and a 70 degree axis rotation player (me).

Walter Ray a small axis rotation player most of the time uses mostly surface to control the length of his breakpoint!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Hamburglar

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2008, 10:12:13 AM »
FRICTION...you need more FRICTION...simple as that...
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That which doesn't kill you will only make you stronger, that which doesn't make you stronger is a waste of time!

leftehh- LG

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2008, 10:14:55 AM »
two words "use dull"
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Frustrated
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2008, 10:20:23 AM »
Dull equipment on a short pattern seemed counter-intuitive to me, but others seem to disagree.  I better break out the 1000 abralon pad before next week I guess!  We'll see what happens.  I need to find out when the pattern is available for practice during the week as well.  I've been used to bowling on longer patterns and forgot how to handle shorter oil.