Post by: Dan Belcher on May 09, 2008, 12:06:41 AM
Last night on the Cheetah, I just could not get the ball to recover from outside very well. My 4000 sanded Total NV was strong enough to come back from the 2-3 board area, but was prone to coming in light and was very speed sensitive. Everything else (stronger drilled Awesome Revs, weaker drilled Special Agent, Rico drilled Eraser Banshee) didn't have enough reaction off the dry to come back. With those balls, I had to point the ball toward the pocket, and this left me with NO margin for error. One board right, I left the 2-8 (and I missed the 2-8 every single time I shot at it last night, ouch)
Basically, I just had to grind out the first two games (167, 162) and wait for the lanes to open up some. I was able to keep my speed up and get just enough reaction to get near the pocket the last two games for 200 and 222, and I wasn't even happy with those games since I missed a couple easy spares.
Every advice I read about the Cheetah talks about controlling the over-hook basically. I fight the exact opposite problem -- I have trouble finding hook on it. On other patterns, I have a little more room if I try to get the ball in, but the Cheetah at my house just punishes you if you have your breakpoint anywhere inside of the 4 board. And going slow is NOT my game. I tried slowing my ball speed from the 16.5-17mph bracket (Qubica speed) to 15mph, but my timing got all out of whack and I could not hit my mark or get anything on the ball at the bottom of the swing, which just created more problems.
Any other thoughts?
Post by: Phoneman on May 09, 2008, 08:20:47 AM
Post by: Dan Belcher on May 09, 2008, 08:27:01 AM
Post by: Phoneman on May 09, 2008, 08:44:23 AM
Post by: Dan Belcher on May 09, 2008, 08:46:29 AM
(If you haven't watched a video of me bowling, my rev rate really sucks, it's only about 250)
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 09, 2008, 08:57:45 AM
It seems like lots of solutions.....1000 abralon with some polish may change things. Some more flare, (often used by low rev high speed bowlers), pins slightly down.
As a lefty we often see lots of au jus when they want to flood us. Lower pins like varients on revs leverage help us a lot. ie pins down say an inch lower than the ring!
This may only be needed initially! Just to give you an idea a couple of years ago on the even longer and wetter US Open pattern I think Randy Pederson used a pin that was as low as even with his grip center.
I don't think you need that low but it may make all the difference and then switch to one of your other balls with more surface than it has now.
Ideally you would have a lower pin one(say pin down) and then a second one with pin even with ring finger once the fresh au jus gets pounded out by your righty friends! Naturally all balls would have more surface than you currently have(because what you have is NOT working).
There IS a solution.
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Phoneman on May 09, 2008, 09:00:37 AM
Post by: Dan Belcher on May 09, 2008, 09:01:36 AM
Post by: Dan Belcher on May 09, 2008, 09:02:34 AM
quote:Really? I get more revs when I completely relax my hand and use as little grip pressure as possible.
Well than that is something you need to improve on. Not just the REv rate but maybe the axis tilt will help. One thing I just learned about is "grip presure". Not knuckling the ball but squeezing it tighter while maintaining a correct grip will incease the amount of revs you put on the ball. Try it by throwing a foot ball under hand straight up in the air. Use ligth preassure then use firm grip preassure and you will see what I am talking about.
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 09, 2008, 09:10:05 AM
Reactions on top hat will differ dramatically from these PBA patterns and have no relationship. If you use your top hat reactions to analyze what drill patterns to use on the PBA patterns you will not make progress.
As to polish....who cares....if it doesn't work for you it doesn't work. But lower your surface grit if you are going tooooo long.
To summarize what I am trying to say. You are bursting thru the break point and have no reaction. You are currently using very little surface, have lots of speed, have all pin ups, have little flare drilled in to the ball, (have one ball extreme pin down and little flare). CHANGE something!
More surface, more pin, lower pin, something different will work! I'm not there and don't know for sure exactly but I think slightly lower pin, slightly more surface, slightly more flare.
But I know this....no changes = no better results.
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Edited on 5/9/2008 9:14 AM
Edited on 5/9/2008 9:15 AM
Post by: Dan Belcher on May 09, 2008, 09:17:04 AM
The Total NV and Special Agent and Awesome Revs actually all flare quite a bit, even with weaker drills.
I'm going to try lower surface, but I'm always leery about that since I rarely ever have good luck with anything sanded lower than 2000 even on heavier oil.
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 09, 2008, 09:32:42 AM
One note...many have seperate arsenals for league and PBA patterns...I am one.
My stuff for PBA patterns does not ever hook as much as my league stuff.
As to pin downs and up....As a side release lefty(we face a lot more au jus and it stays) I do recognize the difference between a 30 degree axis rotation player(you) and a 70 degree axis rotation player (me).
Walter Ray a small axis rotation player most of the time uses mostly surface to control the length of his breakpoint!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Hamburglar on May 09, 2008, 10:12:13 AM
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That which doesn't kill you will only make you stronger, that which doesn't make you stronger is a waste of time!
Post by: leftehh- LG on May 09, 2008, 10:14:55 AM
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Post by: Dan Belcher on May 09, 2008, 10:20:23 AM
Post by: Urethane Game on May 09, 2008, 10:40:04 AM
I'm rev dominant with slow speed now try that on Cheetah and tell me which style has problems on Cheetah.
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got revs? (http://"http://www.gotrevs.com")
Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio (http://"http://www.roosterradio.net")
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 09, 2008, 11:09:50 AM
Just annhilating the shot.
If I remember right he used this
Stinger Lo Flare Particle (http://"http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=1971") He had it drilled if memory serves me right with the pin down and slightly out from ring and cg near grip center. About a 105 degree, theoretical mass bias in track!
SWEET.
We had a local player with similar specs go to a regional on cheetah and he took a copy of Mika's and he took a Victory SPT drilled pin next to ring and MB strong and a reaction enhancing weighhole(1/2 inch pitch out). The Victory SPT was at 1000 with polish.
He said both of above looked good in practice but he went with his more familiar Victory and had a wonderful first time performance.
Cheetah, shorter but high volume!
REgards,
luckylefty
PS I agree with the post above try high revs low speed on cheetah...not fun either!
PPS Walter Ray often puts a blog on his experiences on his web site seems he uses a lot of 800 and 1000 on this pattern. Similar specs to yours also!
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Edited on 5/9/2008 11:10 AM
Post by: Lane1Redneck on May 09, 2008, 01:21:36 PM
Sorry for rambling.
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Post by: LuckyLefty on May 09, 2008, 01:25:03 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..