Author Topic: Going to plastic and urethane for next year.... (Read 3770 times)

David Lee Yskes · « **on:** April 07, 2010, 10:24:59 AM »

So, I got to thinking after watching the Mark Roth plastic ball tourny...

How much of a difference would your average be if you only used Plastic or Urethane.

So taking that into account, I am seriously considering only using 1 plastic ball and 1 urethane ball for all of next year during league. And seeing how much of a difference it makes in my average.

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someguyintucson · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2010, 06:39:12 PM »

I ended up throwing urethane last night in league. Went through my entire bag in practice and nothing would stay right of the headpin unless I moved deep inside, which I really didn't want to do. Pulled out my Storm Natural and ended up shooting a decent set (862 for 4 games).

HAMMERDOWN103 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2010, 06:43:16 PM »

It mostly depends on how much oil your lanes have. Throwing plastic is fine and good, but if you dont have the revs and your house has too much oil you wont do much. And urethane is good but watch out for ten/seven pins!
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HAMMERDOWN!!!

robospare · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2010, 07:16:48 PM »

The house I bowl in has started putting down medium oil at most for there THS fresh shot. The shot evaperates very fast on top of that. I only take my Visionary Ogre Urethane and Lane 1 XXXL plastic ball with me now and consistently still shoot over 600 for 3 games series. Urethane and plastic also requires you to consistently make shots, and roll the ball and not just throw the ball the way you can reactive equipment. My technical game has much improved. When I pratice now, I never use my reactive equipment. Just my Urethane and plastic.

David Lee Yskes · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2010, 07:53:34 PM »

Well last season, I used a old red hammer during a "fun" league, and the carry wasnt an issue. I shot mid 600's every time I used said ball.

I just want better myself and challenge myself next year. And I figure this would be the best way to do it.

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" Lift Your Skirt Grab Your Balls and Learn How to Bowl " http://coolluvr4u1976.bowlspace.com/

For my vids on youtube - search coolluvr4u1976

lenstanles703 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2010, 08:00:57 PM »

Good luck. The new urethanes have good cores so carry isn't an issue. I love my Ogre Urethane.
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Len

RealBowler · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2010, 09:43:18 AM »

Was that Mark Roth ball a standard plastic ball with a pancake core? The only information I can find about the balls is: "The Plastic Ball Championship will require all 64 players to use two identical special Mark Roth custom-designed bowling balls manufactured by OntheBallBowling.com."

Custom-design? Did they have a core or not?

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Haywood

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meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe,
in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2010, 09:58:53 AM »

quote:
Was that Mark Roth ball a standard plastic ball with a pancake core? The only information I can find about the balls is: "The Plastic Ball Championship will require all 64 players to use two identical special Mark Roth custom-designed bowling balls manufactured by OntheBallBowling.com."

Custom-design? Did they have a core or not?

I'd assume that these were just plastic balls, nothing with a dynamic core.

Just add a personal opinion: challenging yourself with urethane or plastic si fine. It can be effective if you just play on light oil, because reactives can simply be too much ball.
Carry comes from a proper entry angle and ball reaction. A resin cover helps, too, because the higher friction - compared to urethane and esp. polyester - keeps pins low and enhances pin mix. Plastic tends to "splatter" pins around and even up, regardless of a core (even though a forward roll upon pin impact helps - before the XXXL-lovers start crying).

Modern urethanes like the Natural or Liberator are pretty strong pieces, compared to classic stuff like the Faball Hammers. The latter also need more accuracy, so using a Natural as strike ball is IMHO not a true challenge, just an potential answer to certain lane conditions.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

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trash heap · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2010, 11:04:48 AM »

Just remember to really wipe off your bowling ball between shots especially if you use plastic.
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Always the last one to POST!

Edited on 4/8/2010 11:13 AM

michelle · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2010, 05:19:30 PM »

People forget that older urethanes also had real cores...perhaps not as complex as today's cores, but once you got the Blue Hammer to the market, real cores were the norm, becoming increasingly complex as the Phantom's hit the market.

Even before that release, however, there were still drilling tweaks that maximized the potential of a pancake in an Angle or U-Dot. And let us not forget the different placements that we saw with the Vector 1 and Vector 2.

Last time I bowled league, I was using the Pearl Grenade almost exclusively (old Roto) for the urethane component, and that was when I was not throwing the Roto RH (the bleeder sibling to the Yellow Dot).

JessN16 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2010, 07:17:47 PM »

If you put a Lane #1 XXXL, Visionary Slate Blue Gargoyle and Lane #1 Liberator/Storm Natural in a 3-ball bag, and you have even halfway decent hand, you can blow a league shot to pieces easily for an entire season provided you're accurate.

One of our best bowlers here uses a black XXXL as his A-ball about half the time and books close to 220. It's definitely the bowler and not the ball when you get down to it.

Jess

n00dlejester · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:01:00 PM »

quote:
yes, plastic balls with pancake weight blocks were used. I don't remember where it was but ball guru Mo Pinel came up with a way to drill them that made it way more powerful than you would think. Maybe somebody else here has the link, think it was on BBE.

Here ya go: http://bowlingchat.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=448&sid=ffcf577f7a599c8a5fc9c2b76fccf0ff

Pretty wild what some science can do these days.
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Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2010, 09:14:41 PM »

It is about entry angle. The greater the entry angle the better the chances are for carry.

That is why they keep creating bigger hooking balls. Most people are finding that for what ever condition they face they actually don't need so much ball for desired reaction. Even people with less revs seem to struggle with some of these new balls on their normal lane conditions.

As of late my Avalanche Pearl and Power Groove are all the ball needed for the THS we have been given. Earlier in the season I would get 1 to 2 games with my Jigsaw(polished) and have to change balls. As of late I can start out with something much tamer and move in, increase or step down in equipment to still allow for a lot of entry angle.
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "

n00dlejester · « **Reply #13 on:** April 08, 2010, 11:15:33 PM »

quote:
Then you obviously do not know of what you speak. I''m sure that if I used nothing but plastic and urethane for a season that my average would go down, but not in any substantial way. That 1 extra 10 pin I might leave per game totals 30 pins in series, so instead of shooting 690 and averaging 230, I would shoot 660 and average 220. The other end of that spectrum is that I would increase my carry by being forced to play much further right than I would play with resin, and my average would increase.

What you fail to realize is that playing further right on a house shot, as urethane would force most people to do, increases carry for a right handed bowler, which I am. Using urethane and plastic would allow me to play MUCH further right, increasing carry. Coverstock does NOT dictate carry. Coverstock CAN dictate entry angle, but that is affected more by the dynamic properties of the core, such as RG and differential. Resin covers respond to friction more than urethane, but that does not automatically mean you''ll have a better angle of entry for carry. The outer shell of a ball does not dictate carry, it dictates response to friction on the lane. Resin responds faster and more violently to friction than urethane, but that does NOT equal carry. The dynamic core of the bowling ball factors into carry much more than coverstock ever will.

Since all new urethane balls use dynamic cores, they have the ability to carry as resin would. Resin only carries well with the correct entry angle, the same applies to urethane. The physics of the game do not change because the coverstock is different.

I will politely disagree with you (please, refrain from the condescending tone - we''re all adults here) about your stance on coverstocks and carry percentage.

You are saying that a bowling ball is a bowling ball, and that carry percentage is dictated more so by the dynamic cores of balls than their shells. Whether it''s a rubber ball with a lightbulb or the latest hook monster, a ball will carry.

I think what really helps reactive resin create better carry is in two parts:
1) Resin''s ability to react violently to the end of a pattern
2) Resin''s ability to recover off a missed shot, and still have violent movement in the backend

While both plastic and urethane will force you more right, that doesn''t automatically equate better carry percentage for a righty (or lefty going further left for that matter). What creates the best carry percentage is the proper match-up on the lanes, regardless of where you are playing them or with what gear.

Your statement I bolded: Coverstock CAN dictate entry angle, but that is affected more by the dynamic properties of the core, such as RG and differential.

While core numbers do help cater a ball to have a certain look, the coverstock is really what gives a ball easily 60% or more of the reaction. I have a ball which I can do basically anything with on the cover to completely change reactions: a T-Road Pearl drilled pin in palm. For me, that''s about a 4.5 inch pin to PAP distance. I put that thing at 4000 + Polish, and it has one insane pop in the back. I then put that thing at 1000 sanded, and I was able to play on a fresh Chameleon pattern with it (the 40 foot version too). This was all coverstock, and NOT the core.

Now, you could argue that one could sand a urethane/plastic ball to read the lane earlier and help it get into the roll phase of it''s reaction. Doing this would possibly even further decrease entry angle potential in urethane/plastic balls, by having it hook incredibly early. It might even roll out by the time it hits the pins. This is the complete advantage that resin has over the older materials: ease of length and very very distinct skid/hook/roll phases. Urethane is all roll really. Plastic just...doesn''t really do much lol. It almost has no backend on modern patterns. On modified it moves similar to resin IMO.

I would say venture an experiment and give it a go with a plastic ball on a THS. You''ll leave quite a few solid 5 pins, pocket 8 10''s, 5 7''s, etc. Core alone can not generate the reaction needed to read the lane and finish strongly through the pin deck. Every good engine needs a sweet set of wheels.
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Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren''t a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.

Edited on 4/8/2010 11:20 PM

lsf_21 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 08, 2010, 11:39:50 PM »

im left handed, i leave more 6 pins, and 8 pins than i do 7 pins. with my storm natural.
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GO CUBS!!!!
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Edited on 4/8/2010 11:40 PM

Author Topic: Going to plastic and urethane for next year.... (Read 3770 times)

David Lee Yskes

Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

someguyintucson

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

HAMMERDOWN103

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

robospare

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

David Lee Yskes

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

lenstanles703

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

RealBowler

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

dizzyfugu

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

trash heap

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

michelle

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

JessN16

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

n00dlejester

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

kidlost2000

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

n00dlejester

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....

lsf_21

Re: Going to plastic and urethane for next year....