BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: sneaky PETE on March 05, 2019, 10:01:49 PM
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i don't know if this is really advice but my PSO told me that people always get pissed when they leave a pocket 7 10 or 5 7 10, but if they left that did it really hit the pocket? from what we see from the approach yes it did hit pocket but from the results no.
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Neither.
Too many people don't understand that hitting the 1-2 or 1-3 doesn't mean it was a good shot
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Neither.
Too many people don't understand that hitting the 1-2 or 1-3 doesn't mean it was a good shot
The problem is when you try explaining it and in the end, still get the “but it’s in the pocketâ€
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Neither.
Too many people don't understand that hitting the 1-2 or 1-3 doesn't mean it was a good shot
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THIS
X infinity
Hitting the “pocket†does NOT = thrown well.
Too many think it does.
Why do you think you see top pros cringing at shots that “look†fine to you?
It’s because they know they threw it incorrectly.
It may even hit the pocket, but that is not a sign they threw it right.
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Neither.
Too many people don't understand that hitting the 1-2 or 1-3 doesn't mean it was a good shot
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THIS
X infinity
Hitting the “pocket” does NOT = thrown well.
Too many think it does.
Why do you think you see top pros cringing at shots that “look” fine to you?
It’s because they know they threw it incorrectly.
It may even hit the pocket, but that is not a sign they threw it right.
Agree with all the above. I'll also add that very few players actually watch their ball go thru the pins and how it's going thru the pins. I had a teammate a few weeks ago leave a "pocket" 7-10 on the 12th ball of a potential 300 game. I was recording it for our house honor board. Visually in the moment it looked like a decent shot, but when playing it back in slow motion as the ball went thru the pins it was actually a horrible shot.
I tell people all the time "Just because you hit the head pin, doesn't mean you should strike" LOL
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Neither.
Too many people don't understand that hitting the 1-2 or 1-3 doesn't mean it was a good shot
/\ /\ /\ /\ /\
THIS
X infinity
Hitting the “pocket†does NOT = thrown well.
Too many think it does.
Why do you think you see top pros cringing at shots that “look†fine to you?
It’s because they know they threw it incorrectly.
It may even hit the pocket, but that is not a sign they threw it right.
Agree with all the above. I'll also add that very few players actually watch their ball go thru the pins and how it's going thru the pins. I had a teammate a few weeks ago leave a "pocket" 7-10 on the 12th ball of a potential 300 game. I was recording it for our house honor board. Visually in the moment it looked like a decent shot, but when playing it back in slow motion as the ball went thru the pins it was actually a horrible shot.
I tell people all the time "Just because you hit the head pin, doesn't mean you should strike" LOL
Dude went front 11 then pocket on the 12th ball. I dunno if "horrible shot" is the right words to describe it.
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I actually think I can tell when they're coming now. Usually get a pocket 7-10 when I lose the ball off my hand to the right and the THS makes it hook early and get back to the pocket, only with no energy.
Doesn't mean my bowling is getting any better because of knowing it though ::)
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Hitting the pocket, does not necessarily mean a well thrown ball per se. But, leaving a pocket 7-10 does not
mean a badly thrown ball. Indeed, many pocket 7-10s are well thrown balls. Why the split is left gets in to geometry and physics.
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Dude went front 11 then pocket on the 12th ball. I dunno if "horrible shot" is the right words to describe it
Why wouldn’t it be?
Low expectations?
They lead to lower scores and averages.
Amateurs have them.
Pros do not.
Again, pocket shot does not equal good shot.
I threw 14 in a row two weeks ago. Hit the pocket on the 15th shot.
Left the 8-10. HORRIBLE SHOT. But, it did hit the pocket.
Had enough on it to get there, but not enough to finish correctly.
Deflected like a marshmallow ricocheting off a boulder.
Simply horrible. And my fault.
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Hitting the pocket, does not necessarily mean a well thrown ball per se. But, leaving a pocket 7-10 does not
mean a badly thrown ball. Indeed, many pocket 7-10s are well thrown balls. Why the split is left gets in to geometry and physics.
Pocket splits usually tell me I have too strong of ball in my hand and or missed the transition at least when occurs on a good delivery. Yeah slow learner.
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Dude went front 11 then pocket on the 12th ball. I dunno if "horrible shot" is the right words to describe it
Why wouldn’t it be?
Low expectations?
They lead to lower scores and averages.
Amateurs have them.
Pros do not.
Again, pocket shot does not equal good shot.
I threw 14 in a row two weeks ago. Hit the pocket on the 15th shot.
Left the 8-10. HORRIBLE SHOT. But, it did hit the pocket.
Had enough on it to get there, but not enough to finish correctly.
Deflected like a marshmallow ricocheting off a boulder.
Simply horrible. And my fault.
Not low expectations at all. but anything in the pocket at least has a chance to strike. it may not be clean but pin action and messengers can make stuff happen.
i've seen plenty of good bowlers go through the nose or brooklyn or not even get to the pocket on the 12th ball for 300.
you put the ball in the pocket you're in the ball park. it might not be the best ball but its still there. even the guy who posted the comment said it wasn't until they replayed the shot in slow motion to see the bad deflection. so it's not even like it was one of those barely in the pocket balls either
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Pocket 7-10 2as very uncommon in the old lacquer era. It started to become very common when urethane lane finish cane out, and stripping lanes frequenly became more common. As oil carried down from the end of yhe buff it delayed the move of the ball, but still resulted in very angular late moves. If you think about it you see most 7-10s on house shots, and medium length tournament patterns. You dont see them much on short patterns except where urethane is being thrown. Also not so much on very long patterns except where heavy handed guys ate using surface to try and create area.
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Pocket 7-10’s can be left on both good shots or bad shots. It’s all about the angle the ball enters the pins. You can leave one when the ball deflects barely hitting the 5 pin and leaving it. Almost leaving the dreaded 5,7,10 that would be a weak 7,10 leave. Also can leave it with ball entering pins to sharp, strong behind head pin with less deflection hence belmo leaving the two 7,10’s against simonson to cost him a major few weeks back. Those were great shots, so he thought, just wrong entry angle, too sharp.
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Granted too many league bowlers feel that a ball that hits the 1 and 3 pins (right handed) it should strike and if it doesn't then they were robbed.
5-7, 5-7-10 and 8-10 are bad shots that deflect way too much when they make it to the 1-3, hence they are not good shots.
I'm sure any long time bowler has released a shot and it felt like a million bucks, right speed, right line, right amount of turn and 9 times out of 10 times it strikes. But there is that 10% that either thru conditioner carry down, pins off spot, pattern break down, etc. they simply don't strike and can leave an occasional ugly split.
Belmo's case I thought he wasn't playing the lanes correctly trying to slow hook them, he could have played the same line the winner was but chose not too. The line he chose lent himself to leaving the 7-10 with shots that felt good to him off his hand but simply came into the 1-3 a little late at the wrong angle. I don't believe they were poorly thrown shots just bad results.
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Instead of focus being on how the ball hit the pocket, watch where it leaves the pin deck. If your ball can split the 8 and 9 pins your strike percentage will be very high. How the ball goes through the pins is crucial.
A high percentage of 10 pin leaves have the ball deflecting and rolling right where the 9 used to be.
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It us about deflection, but a well thrown ball can still deflect too much deoending on the oil pattern and transition. One thing people dont understand is that increased entry angle does not decrease deflection, just changes the direction the ball deflects. It is the rotational energy still being released that minimizes deflection.
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EVIDENTLY, I am in the minority.
The only, and I mean ONLY thing you can leave on a WELL THROWN shot is the 8 pin (9 pin for lefties). Nothing else.
And, there’s even a reason for the solid 8 (or 9 for lefty) pin leave.
You cannot leave a 7-10 on a well thrown shot. You leave it, you did something wrong.
Same for 8-10, 4-9, 4-6-7-10, 4, 6, ring 10, flat 10, fast 8, Greek church,.........
CAN a ball that hits the pocket strike? Sure, it CAN, but so can a ball that hits the 4 pin smack in the face.
We’ve ALL seen it happen. No, it isn’t LIKELY to strike, but it can.
Too many sloppy, poorly thrown balls end up striking these days. Don’t deny it.
I do it, you do it, we ALL do it. Resin balls and urethane lane surfaces allow it now.
Just because you strike doesn’t mean it was a well thrown ball. Or even a good one.
Just close enough. That’s all.
But FUNKY leaves? Yes, those DO mean poorly thrown, “bad†shots.
Anyone tells you different, they’re being condescending, or just don’t know better.
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I'm fully aware that lots of off shots strike. I would venture that I only throw a shot or two each week that I feel was perfect off my hand.
Far too many feel if the ball hits the pocket they executed well, when often they really only see the result of where the ball ended up, not how the lane guided a less than well executed shot to the pocket. And many league bowlers I dare say wouldn't know a well executed shot if it bit them.
So you have to define what is a well thrown shot.
I contend if you get your speed, rotation, and release as you wanted and hit your intended target it was a well thrown shot, a well executed shot. The fact that thru external factors the ball did not flush the pocket doesn't diminish that. Now 99% of the time the well executed shot will hit the pocket solidly but not every time.
A well executed spare shot at a single pin will convert the spare 100% of the time.
Maybe you didn't see the transition, didn't get an oil ring wiped off the ball, carry down, pin(s) off spot, or other environmental factors influence the ball effectiveness.
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Most house bowlers have no idea what a perfect strike shot looks like. I've read multiple times that a perfect strike is all about entry angle of 6 degrees or at least very close to it.
That is pretty close to being straight on, yet everyone wants a ball that goes out to the edge and charges back to the pocket. Then they wonder why they "got robbed" with an 7,8, 9 or 10 pin leave, or even a 7-10 split.
If you look at a clock, a 6 degree angle would be the ball entering the pocket at about the same angle as the minute hand pointing at the 56 minute mark.
From the perspective of the lane, 6 degrees would be a straight line from the corner of the lane to the center of the pocket(exactly between 3 and 6 pin for right hander).
That is not the big swooping angle that most bowlers want to see their ball travel.
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EVIDENTLY, I am in the minority.
The only, and I mean ONLY thing you can leave on a WELL THROWN shot is the 8 pin (9 pin for lefties). Nothing else.
And, there’s even a reason for the solid 8 (or 9 for lefty) pin leave.
You cannot leave a 7-10 on a well thrown shot. You leave it, you did something wrong.
Same for 8-10, 4-9, 4-6-7-10, 4, 6, ring 10, flat 10, fast 8, Greek church,.........
CAN a ball that hits the pocket strike? Sure, it CAN, but so can a ball that hits the 4 pin smack in the face.
We’ve ALL seen it happen. No, it isn’t LIKELY to strike, but it can.
Too many sloppy, poorly thrown balls end up striking these days. Don’t deny it.
I do it, you do it, we ALL do it. Resin balls and urethane lane surfaces allow it now.
Just because you strike doesn’t mean it was a well thrown ball. Or even a good one.
Just close enough. That’s all.
But FUNKY leaves? Yes, those DO mean poorly thrown, “bad” shots.
Anyone tells you different, they’re being condescending, or just don’t know better.
ALL OF THIS^^^^^^^
Most people DO NOT watch how their ball goes thru the pins and most people don't see why they left that ring 10 or stone 9. Again lots of people think just because they hit the 1-3 or 1-2 it should strike. Also a lot of people love to have their stuff "peel" off the back of the pattern, I mean let's face it it does look cool LOL, but that doesn't give you the best percentage to carry well (under normal conditions).
Same thing is true for people using the biggest, dullest and newest balls in the high perf. lines on your typical house shots. I was getting ready for league last week saw a guy at his locker hitting his new age Burgundy Hammer with one of those 60 grit yellow sanding discs (no joke). Thank goodness I wasn't on his pair that night....I mean to each their own and let's remember also that 85% of ALL bowlers are here for recreation, nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
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As long as we play the game on a surface where invisible lane conditioner transitions with every shot, it is not only possible, but likely you leave something on a "well thrown" ball. Not saying there isn't a reason for a pocket 7-10. There is a reason a well thrown ball doesnt carry, but it may still be well thrown.