Author Topic: Full Roller or Release Problem? (Read 6627 times)

flybub · « **on:** November 12, 2009, 08:40:51 AM »

A fella on my team has bowled for close to 15 years and has been all self taught. He just moved here from out of state and is actually a very good bowler. He is in the 4 hole on our 5 man team in our scratch league averaging 218. He is a righty, 28 yrs old, and has a 4 ball arsenal: 2 balls are layed out 4x4, 1 ball 5x3, and his white dot for spares. Weird thing is his track is about about 2" from his middle finger but it crosses just on the edge of the pinky side of his thumb hole and has about 3 oil tracks over his thumb hole. Is he a full roller or is it a release thing? I am not going to tell him to change because is such a good player but he keeps asking me what he can do to keep it from thumping. Both of his 4x4 balls (Rogue Cell & Original Cell) he does not get alot of movement out of which would be somewhat typical of a full roller. He has to stand on the 20 board and play right up the 8 board because there is just not much movement with these balls. He also has a pretty nasty callus on the middle finger side of his index finger, almost like the corner of his nail on the index finger is digging into it. Is he a full roller or does he have an issue with his release?

mumzie · « **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2009, 05:58:10 PM »

Some people would say that a full roller IS a release problem.

Does he have any older equipment that you could look at? If his track has always been inside the grip, he throws a full roller. If it's a new issue with his release, you could probably tell by looking at the track on older stuff.
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flybub · « **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:36:26 PM »

His 4 ball arsenal is all he has, he got rid of his other equipment when he moved here back in June. He has told me that for as long as he can remember he has always hit the thumbhole and his old teammates call him "thud". I told him just because you remember always hitting your thumbhole doesn't help much, could have just been coming straight up the back of the ball. But as far as older equipment, no he doesn't have any. He wants to get a HyRoad but I told him he may want to get a better opinion than mine on his release. A full roller drilling may help him quite a bit but I don't want to tell the driller to lay it out for a full roller if he really isn't.

flybub · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2009, 05:46:53 AM »

Hey dbowler. He was just asking me what my opinion was on his release. I am not qualified or certified to be a coach, I will give him some simple pointers if he asks but I am not coaching. I don't know that he wants to change either, he was wondering because if he is a full roller he wants to have his equipment drilled for a full roller. Thanks for the help.

JohnP · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2009, 10:32:52 AM »

He sure sounds like a full roller. If he has a plastic (non-flaring) ball, check the oil ring on it. I think a full roller layout will solve the thumping. -- JohnP

flybub · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2009, 01:48:08 PM »

I threw some games with him lastnight after our league was finished. He bowled well ending with a 749. He asked the pro shop if they could put some cleaner on his equipment right after league because he wanted to see if his oil rings would show up better. I can never hear a thumbhole hit during league, it is too loud so I took for granted that his former teammates could hear it. I WAS WRONG!

He threw his Rogue 6 frames and it was very quiet except it did flare over the balance hole he has which is 2" down his VAL from his pap which he told me was 5-1/16" over 5/8" up. Next he threw his Original Cell which again I did not hear a thing except it shredding the pocket. Now I 'm getting curious so I look at his oil rings. Both of them are about 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" from his middle finger and right next to his thumb almost clipping it. This was not the track of a full roller I asked him if he was doing something different (I hope not because he shot 280 at me) and he said no, it feels the same as it always has. So we continued, then he started throwing his Nomad Pearl (5x3 layout) and every ball he threw hit the thumb. 2 Rings over the thumb hole but it never got to the point where I thought he could still be a full roller. Went back to his Rogue and again, no thumping. I'm totally confused now. He said he doesn't want to change his release and that is fine with me because he is bowling so well but he does want to know why it's only his nomad rolls over the thumb. Any ideas??

nospareball · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2009, 01:59:50 PM »

Question. Where on the lane was he playing when he was using the Nomad?

A few years back I noticed that I track different depending the on the part of the lane I play. If I'm inside my track is generally lower, 2" from thumb, and if I play outside I will track over the thumb with the first 1 or 2 oil rings. It's a subconscious thing where I get around the ball more when I'm inside, and stay up the back when playing up the boards.
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flybub · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2009, 02:19:19 PM »

nospareball, he was standing maybe 30 board and playing over 13-15 at the arrows. I too have this problem from time to time with my Cell Pearl but I'm the opposite, if I play outside I don't hit the thumb but if I move inside and swing the ball more I hit the thumb.

BrunsMike · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2009, 02:40:48 PM »

High track bowler's like myself, 1 1/2" from middle finger and 1" to .25" to the thumb. I'm not a full roller by any mean's plus I have decent rev's on the ball.

Look at the pin location on the 3 ball's. I'll bet the 2 that are not rolling over the thumb hole are pin over and the one that is, is pin under. Typical high track problem, I can't use a lot of pin under drilling's otherwise I roll over thumb hole every time. Agressive pin under layout's are no good in my hand's, agressive pin over layout's are no problem. Rico layout I'm scared to try it and have alway's wanted to. Pin in palm, if I track over the thumb with most pin under layout's I can't imagine what would happen. Probably roll over the thumb and middle finger..

I'll bet your guy can't use pin under drilling's, unless he don't mind the thumping. I hate that sound and will not use a layout that I know might cause this problem for me.

Just some food for thought.
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williewc · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2009, 03:50:16 PM »

i have a different track on all of my balls, i can stand in the same place, hit the same mark, and different track line, most balls i have a full roller, one ball i never touch the thumb or fingers, one ball i have my track is over the middle finger and thumb only, all my shots feel like im coming out of the ball the same but i know im not since the tracks are so different from ball to ball

but i still shoot good games and my average steadily goes up every year so what the hell lol
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JohnP · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2009, 10:16:25 AM »

So he's not a full roller. How is the Nomad drilled, would it be possible to post a photo? -- JohnP

flybub · « **Reply #11 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:20:18 AM »

Hey John P. Sorry for the delay. I don't have a pic but here is the drilling he has. It came 2.5" pin and 4 oz top wt out of the box. It was drilled with the pin dead on his centerline above his fingers and his CG is dead on his centerline below his fingers. The finger holes split the distance between the pin and CG (if you can picture that). The MB is 1-1/4" right of his thumb. Static weight ended up 1-1/4 oz finger weight, 1/2 oz positive weight there is no x-hole.

JohnP · « **Reply #12 on:** November 16, 2009, 09:28:45 AM »

First, the ball is illegal with over 1 oz finger weight. There either has to be a balance hole drilled or the finger holes could be drilled deeper. But I doubt that either of those options will change hitting the thumb hole. Is there any difference in the grip, especially the thumb and finger pitches, between this ball and his others? If he doesn't know for sure (don't accept "there isn't supposed to be" as an answer), go to the pro shop and have the pitches checked against one of his other balls. -- JohnP

Author Topic: Full Roller or Release Problem? (Read 6627 times)

flybub

Full Roller or Release Problem?

mumzie

Re: Full Roller or Release Problem?

flybub

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flybub

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JohnP

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flybub

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nospareball

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flybub

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BrunsMike

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williewc

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JohnP

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flybub

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JohnP

Re: Full Roller or Release Problem?