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Author Topic: Too long of a hook phase. Is it possible?  (Read 2364 times)

lilpossum1

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Too long of a hook phase. Is it possible?
« on: March 01, 2017, 06:18:33 PM »
I was bowling after league a few nights ago and I ran into something. I used my primal rage all night and it worked decently well. I kept having to move left every couple frames to keep the ball from going heavy, but nothing I couldn't deal with. Anyway, I moved sets after league and it was the same result. I was forced deeper, but still had a look until second game. I think I got deep enough that the ball never really got into a roll. I absolutely could not adjust away from leaving 10 pins. I decided to switch to my Sinister and played roughly the same line. Maybe a shade deeper. The Sinister picked up a nice roll and started carrying all 10. Is it possible that the asymmetric with a shorter hook phase got into a roll whereas the rage had too long of a hook phase for the line I was forced into?

 

Dave81644

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Re: Too long of a hook phase. Is it possible?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 09:18:47 PM »
Most likely, it was reading early and using up all of its energy
I had the same thing last night
To me, and the PSO's can correct me if this isn't right
The lower the pin placement, the longer the hook phase, the tighter the flare rings and the slower it will transition into the roll phase.

avabob

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Re: Too long of a hook phase. Is it possible?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 11:10:55 AM »
You were encountering the big problem for stokers and tweeners on house shots as they break down.  The heads break down but there is still a lot of oil in the mids as you move in.  This forces you to open up your angles as oppose to making parallel moves.  Sometimes a ball chsnge can compensate which happened in your case.  Other times you just keep getting out carried by power players and straighter guys who ca use speed to stay further right

lilpossum1

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Re: Too long of a hook phase. Is it possible?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2017, 12:14:23 PM »
The thing with the shot I am playing on is there is only about 5 boards of playable breakpoint. I don't know what a parallel move is lol. It could have been burning up but it really didn't seem like it was and I had it highly polished and I had really good oil rings. It was wooden lanes though I know the rage is a pretty strong ball

Dave81644

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Re: Too long of a hook phase. Is it possible?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2017, 03:27:42 PM »
Wood lanes? For sure it was burning up.   It's very hard to see because it looks like there is volume downlane.  The ball revs up and quits very early.  Wood lanes and strong equipment usually don't mix very well. I would ball down to a much weaker piece.  Parallel moves is moving your feet and target the same amount.   Moving in 3 boards with feet and 3 boards on lane.  I was on wood lanes for many years.  Mostly polished pieces and fairly weak worked best for me

billdozer

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Re: Too long of a hook phase. Is it possible?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2017, 09:41:30 PM »
Too long of a hook phase equals no roll, which typically means no carry. "Typically"

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bowlingman817

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Re: Too long of a hook phase. Is it possible?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2017, 10:04:42 PM »
The Primal Rage has a fairly high rg at 2.55, my thought is the opposite in being it might of not had even time to rev up considering how deep you were getting. Makes sense since you said your lower rg Sinister pick up the roll earlier and finished stronger.

avabob

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Re: Too long of a hook phase. Is it possible?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2017, 11:25:48 AM »
With modern balls and surfaces the friction is so high when a ball comes out of the skid phase that a ball can burn off all its rotational energy even while making a big move.  Even the tamest most shiny resin equipment is not immune to this problem which is most noticeable on house shots that have a really high volume in the middle.  Power players generate enough revs that the ball is less inclined to burn while creating entry angle.  Straight players typically use speed to minimize the burn, and thus will often out carry us strokers even though we create more entry angle than them.

This couples with another factor which very few people understand.  Entry angle from a big hook does not reduce deflection and enhance carry.  It is the continued release of rotational energy that reduces deflection.  This explains the pocket 7-10 that was relatively rare prior to super hard surfaces and cleaner back ends.  In the old days the flat 10 was almost always the result of deflection because a ball hadn't come out of a skid.  Today the flat 10 usually results because the ball transitioned from skid to roll out quickly with the result also being too much deflection.

I call this the ability for strokers and tweeners to out hook our rev rate.