BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: icon on October 13, 2013, 01:11:02 PM
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I came across this article and found it very informative and interesting, i thought maybe it could help a lot of you out before you buy new bowling balls. Check it out and tell me what you think How to Select The Right Bowling Ball (http://www.epicbowling.com/bowling-tips/ball-selection-tips/)
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Good read, I've bookmarked the site now.
One think I found lacking, or rather would have like for him to discuss, was specs and how to eliminate or zero in on possible good options based on your style vs ball specs.
That is, if you're style is X, the look for a ball with low RG and high diff. If it is Y consider moderate RG low diff.
Not saying that all permutations could have been covered, and I believe the advice of finding good operator to help is spot on, but a lot of times we find ourselves checking out balls online. It would be helpful to be able to at least know how the specs match up to certain styles and thus allow to self eliminate certain types of balls from the jump and can focus your later discussions with said pro shop guy.
What I'm saying is, it could use more detail. Maybe it's coming in follow up articles.
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Wonder how many recognize this article was written by GIZMO823? Good job!
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Have now read the follow-up part 1 on reading ball reaction. Good stuff, look forward to reading more. If it is gizmo, them I enjoy it so far, very informative. Better than the stuff that is written in bowling university or whatever it's called on bowling ball.com. I find these articles have actual educational value.
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Gizmo has show himself to be very knowledgable, so it's not surprising he wrote the article. It appears the target audience is the newer bowler, although there are some good points most bowlers can learn from. I especially like his discussion of hook, which is misunderstood by too many.
While his points regarding the importance of surface are spot on, for drilling it's also very important to understand the effects of different vertical pin positions, and the pin-to-PAP distances that work best for your individual game. Get outside your optimal respective ranges, and no amount of surface prep is going to provide a fix for the reaction you want to achieve. I think in his own way he was referencing this, but it could have been a bit more clear.
Regardless, nice article.
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yeah luke is a great writer. Thought you would like it
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Thanks for the comments guys! Haha, I've got several more articles coming, and I'm trying to focus on one thing at a time, so all the things that several of you have said you would have liked to hear about will actually get covered in its own specific article later, AND I'm also taking suggestions, so message me here or there, or put something in the post. If you want to know about it, I can write about it. I've got some really fantastic resources too, so it doesn't matter what you ask, if I don't know about it, I can find out and we'll all learn something.
The angle I'm taking on these articles at the moment is conceptual. If I can successfully impart some concepts, it's easier to understand more complicated and technical information if the reader "gets" what's going on in the first place. So far most of this is kind of aimed at an entry level bowler, or at least I'm trying to take more difficult concepts and explain them at a beginner level. Eventually I hope to be able to explain more complicated things in a way that everyone can understand better. I've never liked the people that puff out their chests and bury you with a bunch of technical terms to impress you or to make you think they know what they're doing. If people don't understand something, they're always going to be slightly uncomfortable no matter how much they trust you.
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I think you are succeeding at your stated goal. I plan on using these articles, especially concerning hook, to educate my son. He has really gotten into it, but he still equates hook to backend move as you describe and I'm still trying to shake him of the notion that stronger is always better. Great resource. Of course his coach also backs it up. He is getting better at opening up to possibility that "weaker" balls are actually strong balls in the appropriate condition.
And these articles will also help me answer questions like "why isn't it hooking as much?" Look forward to reading more.
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Gizmo has show himself to be very knowledgable, so it's not surprising he wrote the article. It appears the target audience is the newer bowler, although there are some good points most bowlers can learn from. I especially like his discussion of hook, which is misunderstood by too many.
While his points regarding the importance of surface are spot on, for drilling it's also very important to understand the effects of different vertical pin positions, and the pin-to-PAP distances that work best for your individual game. Get outside your optimal respective ranges, and no amount of surface prep is going to provide a fix for the reaction you want to achieve. I think in his own way he was referencing this, but it could have been a bit more clear.
Regardless, nice article.
Steven, I am thinking that Gizmo used to be the "Hampster" here on BR, but then again I could be mistaken.
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Yes, Gizmo used to be the Hampster, but the Hampster is hopefully dead and gone . . what a little bastard.
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BRICKGUY .. good catch .. never put the two together .. don't know how you did that!
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Steven, I am thinking that Gizmo used to be the "Hampster" here on BR, but then again I could be mistaken.
Brick, I don't know how you made that connection. But apparently, you're right. :)
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This is a very good article. Deals with the confusion a bowler will have, simple requests that a bowler has, and deals with the unknowns that a pro shop operator will have.
the only drawback I see with the article (and I honestly can't blame the author for) is if said pro shop operator has a 'bias' (lack of a better word) towards a given brand. I say that because I guess I hearken back to days when a pro shop had nearly every manufacturer's product in their shop. Then, a bowler would have true choice as to what he/she wants, and could compare company to company and ball to ball.
Nowadays, it's much tougher, because you may have pro shops in which the proprietor of that shop is a ball rep for a given company, and (whether due to lack of space in their shop, contractual obligations, etc.) loads up their entire shop with gear from their sponsored company, and pushes that first.
You can't blame the proprietor; they are a rep for that company. But on the other side of that coin, how can one comfortably be able to compare and select the ball that is right for them, if they can't directly see it in that given pro shop? Go to another shop, which the proprietors there know nothing about your game?
I guess I may be adding a bit more to this, as the author puts it, "an increasingly frustrating and worrisome process". Perhaps another article sometime after this that addresses rapport with a pro shop proprietor?
BL.
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Good points. I'm typically extremely long winded, so it's been a challenge to keep articles to a reasonable length, and unfortunately that means not identifying each and every situation possible. However, I should have included this, because increasingly it's become that way. Seems like almost every shop has an operator that's on someone's staff, or that's at least being sponsored by someone, or has a good connection. Obviously if you've got an operator that's on staff with somebody, he's going to push that equipment even if he is still fulfilling his responsibility to the customer to sell them what they need. One small caveat is that for quite a few guys, it's not necessarily to represent that brand, it's because it looks really good on your resume, and because it appeals to a group of bowlers. Some bowlers look at a pro shop guy just as a business guy and are more apt to listen to a fellow bowler, even if that bowler isn't very good. But hey, if the pro shop guy is out bowling and are good enough to be on somebody's staff, that makes them appear like a bowler that just happens to work in a shop, which a lot of people are more comfortable with. I don't know why the correlation, but a very high percentage of people associate a high level of skill with a high level of technical knowledge. Yeah you'd expect people that are good at something to know what they're doing, but we have several high average staffers we drill for that don't know a THING about layouts or ball specs or anything, they just bring new balls in and let us take care of it. Lol they're just extremely good at throwing them . . However, on the flip side, it makes several people cautious because they don't know if they're getting talked into something just because the pro shop guy is on that company's staff.
I DO want to start writing thought process articles like this though, taking a situation and presenting the logic for it and against it. Too much information out there is just dry technical stuff, and while I do want to conceptualize that, most of the biggest decisions out there are things like this. If my pro shop guy is on staff with somebody, can I really trust him to sell me the right ball? I've asked myself this and several questions like it, and keep coming to the conclusion that you have to educate yourself and really understand as much as you can. Another big one is that people like to throw around terminology to make themselves sound smart even though they don't know what it means, and that can make a lot of people feel dumb or ignorant, when in fact there's nothing wrong with what they do. A big beef I have is college kids and talking about adjustments. "Well, it hooked early so I moved 2 and 1 left." Ok . . 2 with your feet, 1 with your target, I get that . . but was it the right adjustment in the first place? Maybe you got slow, overhit it, missed your angle of rotation, missed your target in the first place, etc. But people will hear that and it will get their heads going in the wrong direction, so next time they throw a ball and it overhooks, "well I guess I need to move 2 and 1 left . ." you know? Bowling has gotten complicated, yeah, but it's also been severely overcomplicated by things like this.
Lol see? Rambling . . but stuff like this is where I think I "fit" in the bowling world, or where I can help. I have a blue collar mentality about bowling, I loved watching back several years ago when it was just a guy, a ball, and his intuition. Now it's too mathematical and mechanical . . but at the same time, it's still the same game, it's just been complicated. The technical stuff definitely has a place, but a LOT of people still feel like I do, most of my customer base still has the "I don't care about all those numbers and that crap, I just want a ball that's not going to roll out if I have to get deep," attitude. So instead of trying to convert them or make them feel bad about being behind the times, I interpret and "translate" the technical stuff for them, while still being able to talk technical with the guys that are into that. Ironically enough though, some of the technical guys have just learned a lot of terminology that they really don't understand . .
This is a very good article. Deals with the confusion a bowler will have, simple requests that a bowler has, and deals with the unknowns that a pro shop operator will have.
the only drawback I see with the article (and I honestly can't blame the author for) is if said pro shop operator has a 'bias' (lack of a better word) towards a given brand. I say that because I guess I hearken back to days when a pro shop had nearly every manufacturer's product in their shop. Then, a bowler would have true choice as to what he/she wants, and could compare company to company and ball to ball.
Nowadays, it's much tougher, because you may have pro shops in which the proprietor of that shop is a ball rep for a given company, and (whether due to lack of space in their shop, contractual obligations, etc.) loads up their entire shop with gear from their sponsored company, and pushes that first.
You can't blame the proprietor; they are a rep for that company. But on the other side of that coin, how can one comfortably be able to compare and select the ball that is right for them, if they can't directly see it in that given pro shop? Go to another shop, which the proprietors there know nothing about your game?
I guess I may be adding a bit more to this, as the author puts it, "an increasingly frustrating and worrisome process". Perhaps another article sometime after this that addresses rapport with a pro shop proprietor?
BL.
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Yes, Gizmo used to be the Hampster, but the Hampster is hopefully dead and gone . . what a little bastard.
LMAO .... Gizmo, I was born, raised, and schooled in Kansas and worked there until I was 28 (1965) at which time I moved from Kansas. I remember the Hampster being in Topeka, so I pay attention to people that live where I used to live. When you began posting as Gizmo, and said you were from Topeka plus some things you said now and then, I put 2 & 2 together and came up with Gizmo/Hampster... ;D
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I used to feel bad about not knowing alot of the technical stuff, until I found out that some of the biggest names on the tour have zero idea either and they don't care.
I think it was in a Walter Ray Williams interview where someone asked him about his drilling and stuff and he said he had zero idea. He wasn't getting paid to do that, he was getting paid to knock down pins.
Now I've learned enough to know what kind of reaction I want to see and I'm learning that not everything is for every bowler. I can talk to a pro shop guy and explain what I want to do with it, and then let him do his thing. Out of 4 balls currently in use I've been happpy with 3 of them and the 4th has nothing to do with the drilling ( it just doesn't fit my game very well)
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Haha, bravo sir . .
Yes, Gizmo used to be the Hampster, but the Hampster is hopefully dead and gone . . what a little bastard.
LMAO .... Gizmo, I was born, raised, and schooled in Kansas and worked there until I was 28 (1965) at which time I moved from Kansas. I remember the Hampster being in Topeka, so I pay attention to people that live where I used to live. When you began posting as Gizmo, and said you were from Topeka plus some things you said now and then, I put 2 & 2 together and came up with Gizmo/Hampster... ;D
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And that's kind of where I'm coming from . . if people don't want to get super technical, I'm not going to push them, that's where I can help. It's clutter out of your head too if you're just worried about throwing the ball good instead of trying to figure out board moves and thinking about what dual angle layouts you have on your balls back in the bag . . but some people operate that way. Not everybody is the same, so making everyone be technically proficient isn't going to be right for everyone. Concepts are what matter.
I used to feel bad about not knowing alot of the technical stuff, until I found out that some of the biggest names on the tour have zero idea either and they don't care.
I think it was in a Walter Ray Williams interview where someone asked him about his drilling and stuff and he said he had zero idea. He wasn't getting paid to do that, he was getting paid to knock down pins.
Now I've learned enough to know what kind of reaction I want to see and I'm learning that not everything is for every bowler. I can talk to a pro shop guy and explain what I want to do with it, and then let him do his thing. Out of 4 balls currently in use I've been happpy with 3 of them and the 4th has nothing to do with the drilling ( it just doesn't fit my game very well)
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And that's kind of where I'm coming from . . if people don't want to get super technical, I'm not going to push them, that's where I can help. It's clutter out of your head too if you're just worried about throwing the ball good instead of trying to figure out board moves and thinking about what dual angle layouts you have on your balls back in the bag . . but some people operate that way. Not everybody is the same, so making everyone be technically proficient isn't going to be right for everyone. Concepts are what matter.
I used to feel bad about not knowing alot of the technical stuff, until I found out that some of the biggest names on the tour have zero idea either and they don't care.
I think it was in a Walter Ray Williams interview where someone asked him about his drilling and stuff and he said he had zero idea. He wasn't getting paid to do that, he was getting paid to knock down pins.
Now I've learned enough to know what kind of reaction I want to see and I'm learning that not everything is for every bowler. I can talk to a pro shop guy and explain what I want to do with it, and then let him do his thing. Out of 4 balls currently in use I've been happpy with 3 of them and the 4th has nothing to do with the drilling ( it just doesn't fit my game very well)
Very very true here. and I'll admit that in the early to mid-90s, I got totally lost when ball layouts went to talking about pin placement, CG, etc., when I could easily tell the pro shop operator if I wanted leverage weight, side weight, etc., and how much.
After that, I pretty much lost track of what goes into it, though I'm starting to understand a bit more of it now, especially when it comes to PAP, pin to PAP, and dual layout. But not so much after that.
However, I should have included this, because increasingly it's become that way. Seems like almost every shop has an operator that's on someone's staff, or that's at least being sponsored by someone, or has a good connection.
Yes, but not in the current article you have posted. That's why I was thinking of a supplemental article that would be a good followup on this.. or maybe a separate conversation altogether, because (I assume) the premise of *this* article was to help the bowler deal with their confusion about ball selection. Adding in more confusion defeats the purpose of the article! :)
Obviously if you've got an operator that's on staff with somebody, he's going to push that equipment even if he is still fulfilling his responsibility to the customer to sell them what they need. One small caveat is that for quite a few guys, it's not necessarily to represent that brand, it's because it looks really good on your resume, and because it appeals to a group of bowlers.
That's some of the problem we have nowadays, and myself, personally. For example: I have gone through my share of pro shops, and while I've always had a good choice with ball selection, sometimes the fit of the ball while great, wasn't 'perfect'. I found that place that did that; both great balls to choose from, and the right fit. So it all came down to building rapport with that shop, especially since the owner of that shop is in the USBC Hall of Fame, and has won some huge tournaments over their career..
Then the proprietor switches brands, and now is a rep for a company whose products really don't fit well. That makes me feel like the odd one out, because I use equipment from a company/companies they no longer represent. That causes water to get murky as they would be ordering products from their "old" company to satisfy their paying customer. And that doesn't even go to mention of if there was bad blood between them that caused them to switch.
See how nasty that could be?
In the end, that could cause me to seek out a new pro shop, killing the rapport I was building, and hoping that the new shop could replicate that perfect fit I had. In the end, this is sorta why I prefer some standalone shops, or places where the owner isn't on staff with a company, or (wishing well here) a shop could have staff reps from more than one company working at it (e.g., one person is a rep for EBI, another person working there a rep for AMF/900 Global, etc.), or have someone who is a rep for more than one company (e.g., the owner is on staff at Storm/Roto and EBI).. mutually inclusive, not mutually exclusive.
Again, if wishes were fishes... Now you have me rambling! ;D
BL.
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Good article.
The information you will need to provide or that your operator will need to obtain are your positive axis point, or PAP, your ball speed, rev rate, angle of rotation, and axis tilt.
All of this needs explained. Most bowlers I know have no clue about any of these things except speed and that has a set of issues with it too.
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Okay here is one I disagree with..
Find a good bowler in your area or in your league and ask them how they would evaluate you in normal terms, such as high speed/revs, low speed/revs, etc., and ask them how they would describe the lane conditions you bowl on.
Stick with camera option. Most people have portable camera today (phones, ipods), I really think this is the best route to go.
Don't get me wrong. I think there are good bowlers out there that give good advice, its just that there are also plenty of good bowlers who can't give "good advice". Why take the chance. I say stick to working with the pro shop.
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I find the website interesting. Using the background of what the PBA used before if I recall correctly. I wonder if there are any copyright law infringement on this. I don't see anything stating they obtained permission.
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You're right, and it's not really something I recommend myself . . but I've run into several people who say they just can't get any video of themselves, so it's a last ditch kind of option, because it frustrates people if they think they can't get a ball drilled right unless they have video and get all technical. I've heard, "so if I don't have a video and know all this information then you can't do anything for me? I'll just go somewhere where they know what they're doing and don't need to know all that stuff." By then I've already lost them and everything I say after that sounds like just covering my ass. It really doesn't help much, but it's better than having nothing or just their own estimation, and it at least makes them feel like they're helping, which is encouraging for new bowlers or old timers getting back into it. So yeah, not a good option, but apparently for several people it's their only option.
And as far as explaining pap, speed, etc., I believe I covered all that and how to calculate it in an earlier article, I'll have to check, but that's an article all in itself. I wanted to explain it, but it would have messed up the flow of the article, and I was really more presenting options that would appeal to everyone. The technical guys could jump on that, and if someone is reading the article and doesn't understand what that means, they'll see that they can just take a video instead, hopefully prompting them to ask about all those things later to their pro shop op, and if none of that is an option for them, then there's the last ditch suggestion. Lol but it does suck, I have to pare back these articles a lot because I'll want to explain absolutely everything I'm talking about, but by the time I'm done, I've got pages and pages and it sounds all disjointed and just is hard to read and keep with the subject at hand. If I don't have that in a previous article though, I'll definitely address it soon.
Okay here is one I disagree with..
Find a good bowler in your area or in your league and ask them how they would evaluate you in normal terms, such as high speed/revs, low speed/revs, etc., and ask them how they would describe the lane conditions you bowl on.
Stick with camera option. Most people have portable camera today (phones, ipods), I really think this is the best route to go.
Don't get me wrong. I think there are good bowlers out there that give good advice, its just that there are also plenty of good bowlers who can't give "good advice". Why take the chance. I say stick to working with the pro shop.
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Gizmo writes some great material that makes it easier for us to understand