BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Armourboy on August 11, 2013, 05:30:24 AM
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Ok so with the advent of the almighty Youtube and the ability to go back and watch old PBA matches before I got into the sport ( probably about 1998) I've noticed a ton of balls that I flat out don't know what they are or even who made them in some cases.
Now I've figured out some of them by going through the old approved list based around the year they were used, but that doesn't really give me a ton of info on what people thought about them at the time.
Like today, just found out Norm Duke used to throw a ball from a company named Champion that apparently had them poured by Faball.
So ok really what I'm after is those odd little tidbits about how things were, how balls reacted, who threw what when, why they no longer throw it or what ball you wished the would completely reintroduce.
On a side note I've spent the last day or so looking at the matches from the change over from urethane to reactive urethane and the difference it was. Norm Duke wheeling it across the lane in a match or two blew my mind lol. I've pretty much only seen him throw more down and in so it was a bit of a shock to the system.
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Not only that, but Duke had a company called Power Play make a bunch of balls for him, called the Advantage. Their list is here with some info about them
http://www.123bowl.com/search.cfm?isCurrent=1&companyID=40 (http://www.123bowl.com/search.cfm?isCurrent=1&companyID=40)
Also, not sure if you've heard of it, but this website has a list and small description (many times the cover description and the core specs) of many balls from the past:
[url]http://www.123bowl.com/listcompanies.cfm?isCurrent=1[url]
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Here is another site with most of the old balls.
http://www.bowlingballvault.com/
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Thanks, I've actually run across both looking different things up.
Damn lefties make it hard to figure out exactly what they are throwing in some of these old events sometimes.
I'm always shocked to see just how many ball companies there has been over the years and the fact I keep finding different ones.
Also find it interesting how some guys bounce around like mad between ball companies over the years and others stick with the same one for a long time.
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I believe the number one reason you see different bowlers throw a lot of different equipment is because there weren't too many people on staff. Unless you were a really really big name back then, you may. However, more money was to be made using equipment. I haven't bowled in a national tournament in years but i recall bowling back in early to mid 90's. Right before the tournaments they had lists posted showing what incentives were for the week being offered from each company. I'm not sure if this still happens or not though. Unfortunately the money has gotten worse through the years instead of better. The temporary revenue building concept of product registration that has now turned permanent had also squashed the smaller companies IMHO.
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Yeah just looking through some of this stuff the number of companies that came and went in the late 90's to early 2000's seems to be pretty crazy.
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On a side note I've spent the last day or so looking at the matches from the change over from urethane to reactive urethane and the difference it was. Norm Duke wheeling it across the lane in a match or two blew my mind lol. I've pretty much only seen him throw more down and in so it was a bit of a shock to the system.
On a side side note: The interesting thing about Duke is the majority of his wins are with resin.. Not trying to highjack, just talking about differences in era of equipment and bringing up Duke reminded me of this.
http://www.pba.com/Bowlers/Bowler/8678
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Some old little known companies....
ASU made a urethane ball named the Patriot....had a rocket shaped core, looked like a Blue Hammer
Champions....small company started by Norm Duke, Del Ballard and 2 other PBA players....started with the Weapon series of balls.....Burgundy Weapon, Blue Weapon and Black Weapon. Then came the Ultimate Weapon and the Reactive Ultimate Weapon. Then came the Warhawk line and then the ultimate breaking up of the company. Yes, the balls were poured by Faball.
Pin Breaker had an interesting marketing strategy....sold their balls in 2-1/2 gallon plastic buckets, not boxes. Also they differentiated between their balls by coverstock and label color....all balls were called Pin Breakers
AMF had a great strategy with their AMForce line....numbered 1 thru 4, each had a different reaction and hook characteristic...
What ball was the furthest ahead of it's time????
The Track Shark wins this award.....this drill sheet for this ball made the Phantom drill sheets look like kindergarten reading material. I recall the pro shop I was using at the time telling me the Shark was the kind of ball that you wanted to give away and charge $200 to drill!!! FYI the core was designed by Mo Pinel.
Lots of others as well.....
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Thank You, I was trying to remember the company that made the Patriot, that was a great ball. Also the Champions balls where good too, BUT that Track SHARK was awesome! I still have all 3 of mine although one cracked but a great piece shot a lot of honor scores with all the balls mentioned.
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I always thought Champion bowling was founded by Bill Hall or was that Power Play? Anyway I remember seeing an old telecast where Norm Duke was throwing a ball called The Tank by a small company called Eureka? Did this company make any other balls or was The Tank their one hit wonder?
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JP.....Bill Hall was another one of the founders of Champions. I think the other was Chris Warren....maybe?
The Tank was a urethane made around the same time as the Black Angle, Black U Dot and Black Hammer. And Yes, it was a one hit wonder for the company.
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The Blue TANK was made by a company called EUI.
How about the JPF Axes that were designed in left hand and right hand models? Didn't Fabinich start this company after selling HAMMER to the Wonders family (Who now have Visionary?) Weren't these once touted as the very first asymmetric balls?
ASU also had a ball called the ELIMINATOR, that was an ugly tan color.
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Here is a picture of one of the old EUI shirt patches.
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Anybody remember Star Trak? I had a few of them, Reactor Blue pearl, Red pearl and the X-15.
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Why was I thinking Voss had something with Champion? As I type it though I know I am wrong. AMForce was not the only ones to have the number system. The Attitude series was I, II, and III. From what I saw the 'Tude II was the most popular around my area.
I remember when the Track Heat was the ball that dominated out on tour. That was an amazing ball. I don't recall how long it seemed to stay on top.
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not as old as the stuff you guys are discussing but the AZO Ultima RP was incredible ball.
I loved the C300 Primal Rage and Tour Boss. The Quake was the ball Bob Learn used to shot 9 million with on tv
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Yeah Eureka did make one called the Tank http://www.123bowl.com/ball.cfm?ballid=1094
Also so far the ugliest ball I've seen so far is this Manhattan Rubber one http://www.123bowl.com/ball.cfm?ballid=1399
That Shark had a weird core in it, and I've seen several others with some pretty odd combos as well.
Think its interesting that in a lot of ways the small manufacturers are the ones that seem more than anyone to drive innovation. Sometimes it appears it worked and sometimes it doesn't, just sad to know that almost always they get gobbled up.
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Anybody remember Star Trak? I had a few of them, Reactor Blue pearl, Red pearl and the X-15.
Yup!
I still have a 15 lb Reactor Red and a Reactor Blue NIB!
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sd.....Yes the Tude series did have a I, II and III but they were sequential releases, the AMForces were all released at the same time, designed for different bowler styles and ball reactions.
mainzer.....wasn't Learn on AMF staff at that time? I thought he was using a Ninja RPM or RPM Swirl...a Mo Pinel cored ball by the way :-)
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I still have a Blue Infinity from back in the day. Poured by Hammer for a chicago based company
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How about this one......the teal (pearl) HSP? High Score Products became.....??? Had one and it was an amazing ball
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HSP's first 2 balls were the Blue Pearl Storm and the Teal Pearl Storm.....HSP got renamed and became Storm Products.
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Yeah I googled it real quick and /facepalmed.
I knew who HSP was just couldn't get my brain working. Explains why I was having a hard time finding it on the ball lists lol
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Why was I thinking Voss had something with Champion? As I type it though I know I am wrong. AMForce was not the only ones to have the number system. The Attitude series was I, II, and III. From what I saw the 'Tude II was the most popular around my area.
I think Brunswick first came up with the numbering system, back in the rubber ball days - mid '60's. They had a three ball series, called T1, T2, and T3. As I remember, they were a dull blue color, T1 was the least hooking. I didn't have one, but they were pretty popular for a while in the center I bowled in. -- JohnP
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I still have a Blue Infinity from back in the day. Poured by Hammer for a chicago based company
I had a black infinity. I also has a yellow sun storm that was by HSP which as stated is now Storm.
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I still have a Blue Infinity from back in the day. Poured by Hammer for a chicago based company
I had a black infinity. I also has a yellow sun storm that was by HSP which as stated is now Storm.
That Storm ball is interesting looking heh
http://www.123bowl.com/ball.cfm?ballid=336
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Doug i could have sworn it was the quake. I bugged my parents about getting one for months after i watched that show
Here is the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nceWYfiO1jg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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That's the RPM, which was purple! Look at the logo on the shirt, RPM! You can see AMF above the fingers as well! I remember that he used AMF back in the day and that was an awesome ball! Mo Pinel did a lot of design work for them! http://www.bowlingballvault.com/images/stories/jreviews/1249_RPM_1266771986.jpg
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Well not the first time i have been wrong lol
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The Budwiser "Bow Tie" ball is a ball that caused a lawsuit against the PBA, but was thrown on the PWBA shows.
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One ball I had was the Helix. That ball was weird in itself.
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Yeah I had a couple in our league who both used one, and talked about how much he wished he had bought a couple more. The people that liked them really seemed to like them, while others were rather meh on the whole ball.
One thing is for sure it looked damn good, and I think the Quantum series of balls still has one of the best logos ever used.
Now here is another question or at least thought. You look at alot of these old balls and it says it for " heavy oil" but I'm guessing the would be more like a medium pattern today?
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Really depends. The oil really hasn't changed that much. Todays big hooking ball are stonger then those from the late 90s early 2000s but those bowling balls will still hold there own very nicely.
Surface makes a big difference.
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Really depends. The oil really hasn't changed that much. Todays big hooking ball are stonger then those from the late 90s early 2000s but those bowling balls will still hold there own very nicely.
Surface makes a big difference.
Thanks really don't have much of a comparison from a personal stand point because I've just never really seen a " heavy" lane condition, about the heaviest I've seen is a medium-heavy type. Certainly wouldn't have a clue compared to the older balls because I never bought them, just way too much ball for the lanes around here.
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I loved my Quantum Sage and Raven, those are two that i completely loved. And keeping with brunswick one of my all time Favs was the HPD. A few cool balls from a lil bit ago was the Clear Wolf and Omega from Ebonite. Actually EBO had a few quirky balls late ninetys early 2000's Formula optyx!
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loved my clear wolf. did anyone else ever throw a gem star mine was clear slight gold tint and the core was shaped like a gum drop.
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EBO has always had some odd ideas with balls, sometimes a bit too odd. Oddly enough around here I never saw very many EBOs used, and that is with an Ebonite Center about 45 minutes down the road. The house I primarily bowled in was always heavily Columbia or Brunswick, with Storm a bit more later on.
We had several older people that still bowled with Urethane when I first started in the late 90's and by the time I had to stop almost all of them were throwing one of the Messengers.
I can remember a Red, White and Blue Ebonite ball, seems like a Soccer ball maybe, and there was something clear, oh the Skull Ball, but I'll be damned if I remember who made each one.
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the Brunswick T-1, T-2, and T-3 were Tracmasters that were, indeed made in about 1965. It was a hard rubber ball that came in gun metal blue. They also used that shell on the Automatic Scorer ball from the same era. I remember them so well because I won my first scratch match play tourney with a T-1 in 1966. By the way, I was told later that the only difference in the balls was the weight block placement. The stronger hooking T-3 had more positive and finger weight if drilled on the label. Nobody dodo scaled balls for most of us back then, so who knows.
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I always wanted an Ebonite 8-Ball.
Dynothane made a lot of stuff before going overseas.
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I heard from a guy who bowled on tour at the time when Brunswick was coming out with the LT-48 and I believe the LT-51 they gave Tommy Hudson the choice of which ball he wanted his name on.
He chose the LT-51 and Johnny Petraglia the LT-48. Of course the LT-48 turned out to be hugely more popular.
I never could throw the soft rubber balls of the time (LT-48, KE-21) they simply rolled way to early for me.
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Never had a chance to throw one of the softer ones, although I've thrown several old hard rubber.
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Raiderh2oboy has a NIB EUI Tank in his shop.
I have a second drill right handed JPF Black Axe. As reported, this was the first patented asymmetrical ball but I understand Brunswick manufactured the Phantom before John Fabinich (of Faball fame) could reach production. I've never thrown it.
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LT 48 wasn't bad as an alternative to polyester on urethane finished wood lanes, but was very condition specific. I believe Dave Soutar won the Masters with one when they first came out. You could sometimes open up something off the corner with it when plastic would hang. Sanded urethane made the LT 48 obsolete.
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I loved the Neo-Tac Khameleons. Super adjustable cover (tweaked version of pk 18) and great mushroom core. Rumor was they had a second ball in plans, but it never materialized. I think I've had 6 of them...
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I had a EUI tank sold it an the guy that I sold it to still uses it. The xcaliber is the ball that started the risen balls
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JPF axe
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Dont forget about AZO and Fat Man and Little Boy with the twin pin technolgy.
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Ok that may be the oddest core I've ever seen inside a bowling ball.
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Dont forget about AZO and Fat Man and Little Boy with the twin pin technolgy.
Raiderh2oboy has those NIB too!
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Bonanza Hex with a 9" Pin. :D Bonanza was that company that took all the blems and mess ups from the bowling companies and made them their own. The ball is perfectly legal and have used it several times at the Open Championship. Shot my high series of 857 with it ;D
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Was Bonanza actually a company or just a brand name that Columbia used to market seconds and blems.
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Fat Man and Little Boy were awesome pieces.....
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I had a Fat Man a few years back. I never seemed to match up really well with the ball, but it was the hardest hitting ball I have ever thrown.
Brad
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Was Bonanza actually a company or just a brand name that Columbia used to market seconds and blems.
It was Columbia brand that was released as second and blems. I had a Bonanza purple resin Beast and the Blue Piranha.
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company call jab had 2 balls a black and a green gator from 1995 made in canton ohio
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Obviously this is kind of going off of my own topic but who cares.
I know seconds still exist and are sold, my question is though just how bad can seconds get, or I guess what is the line between and acceptable second and just a plain bad ball?
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Depending on company, seconds will be long pins, bad color, too many pin holes, too many patches or some combination of these things. Nothing that will effect performance.
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Was Bonanza actually a company or just a brand name that Columbia used to market seconds and blems.
It was Columbia brand that was released as second and blems. I had a Bonanza purple resin Beast and the Blue Piranha.
Yeah they actually took balls from Track, Columbia, and Ebonite. I had the Track Hex blem. They joy of the blem is I only paid $60 for it.
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I used to throw a Wild Fire made by CSI. I think they also had a ball called the Hypower. Can't remember.
It was my first reactive ball. Lanes needed to be dry for it to hook, but carried well through the pocket.
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Doug i could have sworn it was the quake. I bugged my parents about getting one for months after i watched that show
Here is the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nceWYfiO1jg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Got the Quake for Christmas one year...... loved it. Also had the RPM Swirl a few years later....... loved it too. Wish I still had them sitting around! Found a Track Heat 2 single drill at my parents house-- 16lbs. Almost fits, too :-)
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Some of them can be pretty bad. The worst one I have bought is a Bounty Hunter. It has the CG stamp about 1 1/2 inches above and to the right of the pin. The guy didn't list it as a second, but I didn't pay much for it either.
Obviously this is kind of going off of my own topic but who cares.
I know seconds still exist and are sold, my question is though just how bad can seconds get, or I guess what is the line between and acceptable second and just a plain bad ball?
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Bonanza was the blems from Track/AMF/Columbia at the time they were all made together.
Hurricane was the Ebonite x-out brand.
I have a NIB 15lb Hurricane of the Apex Intensity. The color was off, and looks really good.
These went away when they learned to put the same logo on the ball with the added marker of X-out or 2nd. This increased the price. Bolwingball.com went one better with "pro-pin" and "pro cg" balls from Roto-Storm. Actually sold at the same price or higher then first quality balls for awhile.
It is all about marketing and sales. Many times it can be a color blem, label mess up, pin to cg is too far, too much top weight, pin/cg/mb out of line ect.
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I never saw a Brunswick blem/xout till the time of the Infernos. I always wondered where they went because I wanted them lol.
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Interesting thread. I have an LT-48 that I absolutely love. It's a medium oil ball for me that still hits very well. My father stole it out of my basement, and refuses to give it back, LOL!!
I have an AZO Fatman that was never any good for anything other than toast. I have always used it as a glorified spare ball. The main problem, I believe, is knowing how to correctly drill this ball. None of the pro shops in my area ever had a clue about how to drill it!
One of the very first balls I ever owned was the red, Brunswick Edge. Back in the day it hooked/arced fairly well. On today's oils this thing would just slide as if on ice!
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I forgot to mention that I got a Brunswick Command Zone Arc off E-bay awhile back. I use to have one in early 90's .
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Fat Man and Little Boy were awesome pieces.....
Yes, but bad name choices for a company that was trying to market in Japan!! -- JohnP
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Command Zone Arc was one of the great balls from Brunswick. It actually came out in the late 90's. I used one in the 2000 Masters at Albuquerque to make the cut. Shot back to back 800's with it in league out of the box.