Author Topic: green gargoyle replacement (Read 1583 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** March 29, 2010, 05:39:29 AM »

I am looking for a non visionary ball that will replace a visionary green gargoyle. I had this ball drilled with a 5.5 pin to pap with the pin up close to the VAL and it was very snappy and angular on the backend, even on lighter to dry conditions ..That is what I want...
I thought a hammer venom might fit the bill as I know that ball is long and strong on the backend.. Is there anything out there that may be similar

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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 29, 2010, 02:00:55 PM »

Emerald Vibe. I have tossed them both and they are VERY similar.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2010, 02:05:34 PM »

Thing you have to remember, though, is that the GG is basically using a cover that is 10 years old, technology wise. So, pretty much anything you use is going to be slightly stronger overall, even with todays "weaker" stuff. But, from the experience, the Emerald is fairly close.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** March 29, 2010, 02:06:08 PM »

Having had a couple, I can venture a guess or teo.

The closest balls currently, but all would probably require a 5" pin to PAP with the pin placed above the bridge area:

Visionary Ogre SS
Storm Fast
Hammer Emerald Vibe
Ebonite Boom

All 4 will handle medium oil for the average rev, average ball speed bowler. So using a 5" pin and placing it high will enable each to handle less oil (light to medium-light oil) which is the GG's strength. Don't kick out the CG or the MB because that would reduce the flip for which the GG is famous. I assume you still want that. I would also ask for a 3-4" pin-CG ball.

There is also a good chance that the Tropical Storm drilled strong and flippy would come close to emulating the GG. I mean a 3.5-4" pin to PAP with the pin about 1.5" from the VAL (not sure what that might be in DUal ANgle terms for your delivery and PAP). Possibly a 50/3.5"/30 drilling (not sure about that).

If you could dig up a Roto-Grip Netpune and also drill it strong, it can come close to a GG. That I have seen. but I haven't seen very many Neptunes anywhere.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

RamenRules · « **Reply #4 on:** March 29, 2010, 02:29:10 PM »

The Dark Star is a symmetric pearl with a high RG low differential core much like the GG. It'll probably have a stronger reacting cover than the Gargoyle did but a pin up drilling might just fill the bill.

J_w73 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2010, 02:32:57 PM »

thanks for the info.. yes I still want that flip..
thanks for the tropical storm suggestion .. I will give it a look..

I have a neptune and in dry it won't over hook but seem to have traction in it with a long smooth break..if it had oily heads and dry back it did have a pretty big snap..
but the GG seemed to snap on the back even if the heads and mids were burnt..

--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

J_w73 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2010, 02:33:41 PM »

quote:
The Dark Star is a symmetric pearl with a high RG low differential core much like the GG. It'll probably have a stronger reacting cover than the Gargoyle did but a pin up drilling might just fill the bill.

I'll check it out. .. thanks.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Nor Cal Bowler · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2010, 03:10:48 PM »

quote:
quote:
The Dark Star is a symmetric pearl with a high RG low differential core much like the GG. It'll probably have a stronger reacting cover than the Gargoyle did but a pin up drilling might just fill the bill.

I'll check it out. .. thanks.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

ive told you about this ball

J_w73 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2010, 04:00:59 PM »

What about the nomad pearl?.. according to Rotogrip that is even longer and more backend than the darkstar. BTM has the hook rating as pretty strong though.

--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2010, 04:30:03 PM »

quote:
thanks for the info.. yes I still want that flip..
thanks for the tropical storm suggestion .. I will give it a look..

I have a neptune and in dry it won't over hook but seem to have traction in it with a long smooth break..if it had oily heads and dry back it did have a pretty big snap..
but the GG seemed to snap on the back even if the heads and mids were burnt..

--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Like Steve TwoHands said, the GG is old school coverstock with normal core. Neptune is medium strength cover with nothing core.

Another ball like the GG in that it has a normal-ish core is the Lanemasters Hornet. It is a light oil ball with a normal flaring core. I'd use a no more than 4" pin to PAP but put it closer (not on top of) to the VAL rather than further away. Like the GG, it needs a lot of dry to make its move.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2010, 04:33:03 PM »

quote:
What about the nomad pearl?.. according to Rotogrip that is even longer and more backend than the darkstar. BTM has the hook rating as pretty strong though.

--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Nomad is really a medium oil ball with tons of backend, more like the Reign. not a mild coverstock. Neither is the Dark Star. DS is meant for less oil than the Nomad, but not as little as the GG handles. On drier lanes, I don't think you'll see anywhere near the push with the Nomad or the DS that you see on the GG.

That is why I recommended at least 5" pin to PAP on the above balls that I recommended.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2010, 04:37:49 PM »

quote:
quote:
What about the nomad pearl?.. according to Rotogrip that is even longer and more backend than the darkstar. BTM has the hook rating as pretty strong though.

--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Nomad is really a medium oil ball with tons of backend, more like the Reign. not a mild coverstock. Neither is the Dark Star. DS is meant for less oil than the Nomad, but not as little as the GG handles. On drier lanes, I don''t think you''ll see anywhere near the push with the Nomad or the DS that you see on the GG.

That is why I recommended at least 5" pin to PAP on the above balls that I recommended.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

If I could find a Silver Streak Pearl would that ball fit the bill?.. has the nomad core and a much weaker cover from the looks of it.

On a side note.. I know cover has alot to do with it but what core gives flip and an angular backend... ? Is it a bottom heavy vs top heavy core??
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Edited on 3/29/2010 4:43 PM

charlest · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:00:12 PM »

quote:

If I could find a Silver Streak Pearl would that ball fit the bill?.. has the nomad core and a much weaker cover from the looks of it.

On a side note.. I know cover has alot to do with it but what core gives flip and an angular backend... ? Is it a bottom heavy vs top heavy core??
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

In my opinion, I'm not sure, but no worries as I doubt you'll find one.

What core gives flip?
None. The ball (cover+ core + drilling) + bowler's release + lane oil gives flip.
That is also why I was trying to give you some drilling/pin location suggestions because you want that flip on lighter oil.
It was also why I was suggesting NOT kicking the CG/MB out (smaller Drill angle). That generally smooths out a ball's reaction. You also generally want a smaller VAL angle.

My current GG does not flip because of how I drilled it and the GG is one of the flippiest balls ever made.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:57:04 PM »

Taking all suggestions into consideration but still researching..

how about a Track 505A or a 900 Global Link ??
The link may be just too weak though..
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

J_w73 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2010, 06:25:46 PM »

What about the smash? I have read some reviews that say smash is more angular and more backend than the Boom .
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Author Topic: green gargoyle replacement (Read 1583 times)

J_w73

green gargoyle replacement

TWOHAND834

Re: green gargoyle replacement

TWOHAND834

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charlest

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RamenRules

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J_w73

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J_w73

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Nor Cal Bowler

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J_w73

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charlest

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charlest

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J_w73

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charlest

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J_w73

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