Author Topic: Guardian, friend or foe? (Read 2458 times)

Rantings · « **on:** June 19, 2003, 11:11:18 PM »

What has been your experience with the guardian surface or should I say overlay? Good, Bad, indifferent.. Anything?

(Interesting that Jeff Carter averaged 261 on guardian and all some people do is complain about it.) Please don't let this comment keep you from replying if you hate it. Just a bit of trivia....

bass · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2003, 08:11:02 PM »

I think Bob pretty much covered it.
The house were Jeff Carter put up that average has a tremendous carry percentage when you hit the pocket.
Guardian overlays can come in partial to full length overlays.
With a partial (front)overlay the oil can't be absorbed into the lane surface.
Creating what Bob was describing in his reply.
Full length guardian seems like it gives you extra backend(from increased surface friction)?
I think bowling centers went to this to protect whatever wood that they had left. Instead of going with a more costly solution( new wood,flipping the old wood or a synthetic overlay). I've heard of a plexiglass type overlay(comes in sheets) but haven't seen one installed yet.

michelle · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2003, 08:26:12 PM »

Houses with Guardian that have problems with the heads blowing out tend to be those instances where the overlay went over bad wood and then split...the lanes then play sponge coupled with the movement of the oil through the bowlers.

The couple of events that I have bowled that had the Guardian used a puddle near the arrows, much like what I think Bob is talking about. Even so, they still became brutal long around the 7th, 8th and 9th games.

Its playable and everyone has to compete on the same conditions...I'm just a not a fan.

98custom · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2003, 11:20:54 PM »

Just a few thoughts about the house that i bowl out of. It has gueardian lanes and is a 42 center. there are 20 origional lanes and the rest were added on later. Even though they are supposed to be the same lanes, they play rather differently. The older lanes tend to hook more while the newer lanes play a bit straiggter. Also, most don't notice a huge carrydown problem with either set of lanes. Just some thoughts.
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When all else fails, become a lefty

10 In The Pit · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2003, 09:05:15 AM »

From what I've heard from in houses with partially covered lanes, the heads will go away fairly quickly (where the Guardian is at), and the carrydown will pile up fast, giving you a hook-skid type reaction. I recall that the last time I bowled on the Reno Hilton Lanes (I believe that they had 30 feet of Guardian), you had to move in deep, but there wasn't enough backend to get the ball to recover. It made a difficult condition to try to bowl on.

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2003, 11:15:38 AM »

my house had full-length guardian until the summer of 2000. the wood surface underneath was in great condition. the oil pattern was a blend with more in the middle tapering towards the outsides and the pattern went down 39'. the lanes were cleaned and oiled every morning but only oiled before evening leagues. after a full day of senior leagues and open play, there was PLENTY of carrydown when the nights league started. i liked it as it allowed me to square up and play a down and in shot with an aggressive ball---others didn't care for it.

mumzie · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2003, 02:18:38 PM »

Friend or foe -
definite friend to the proprietor. Saves wear and tear on the lanes.

Definite foe to the bowler - or at least a foe of mine. I HATE the stuff. I feel like my ball is having to go through sticky maple syrup to get through the guardian.

The strangest condition I've ever bowled on, however, was 20-25 feet of guardian, then synthetic for 10-15 feet, then wood. GEEZ. I hit the pocket solid for 3 games, and shot 510. Talk about the ball rolling out!!!
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I start each day with yoga and meditation. I put my right foot under my left thigh. I put my left foot under my right thigh. I arch my back as much as I can, and then I begin my mantra: Ouch, oh, that hurts.

medang · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2003, 03:31:11 PM »

Guardian was developed back in the days of urethane, way before resin was even a consideration. It would last a center 7 to 10 years before they would have to pull up and replace the film which was good for the center. For the higher speed bowlers it wasn't much of a problem. Medium speed got by ok and the slower speeds struggled a little getting it through the heads. The reason for this is guardian gives when the ball makes contact with the surface so more of the guardian comes in contact with the ball.
Now since resin expanded the reaction ten fold in bowling equipment you can imagine the problems it created for bowlers on guardian. If you were having some problems with urethane getting through the heads you really had problems trying to use resin and if you already had severe problems well you can imagine the pain. Resin took a year or two off the life expectancy of the guardian but was still a good deal for the house.
Now particle comes along, and what does particle do. It grabs the lane sooner. Well you can only imagine the problems now on guardian as some of you have already witnessed. All the house could do is flood the heads to the best of their ability. THe wear with particle equipment shortens its life span down to 2 to 3 years. On the edge if its practical for a house to keep using it. They can combat it with more oil in the heads but some people will still have problems with the worn out heads.
In the center i am in we laid down guardian 2 years ago. It's already worn out as we can't keep enough oil on the heads to last more than 6 games.
With todays more aggressive cover stocks IMHO guardian today is definitely a foe.

10 In The Pit · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2003, 03:56:44 AM »

As for replacing wood lanes with new wood, I doubt that you will see that happen. The price for wood lanes these days is higher than the cost of synthetics, unless a house can scrounge up some used wood lanes from a house that has closed down somewhere.

Speaking of good wood going to waste, a few years ago, the owner of the local center in town here gutted out a 24 lane house in Florida and brought all of the bowling equipment up here. He pulled out his old AMF machines and installed the Brunswick A2 pinsetters he acquired. He had 24 lanes worth of approaches, lanes, and pindecks sitting outside in the parking lot under a covering of clear Visiqueen. Well, clear Visiqueen will break down fairly rapidly under exposure to UV light, and it just so happens that sunlight contains a ton of UV during the summer months. About 3 months after he had piled up all of the wood on the parking lot, the Visiqueen gave up on the wood piles, and all of that maple and pine went to waste. He couldn't sell it for what he thought it was worth, so he buried it in a landfill. What a waste of good maple and pine. His reasoning was that the wood from the gutted house wasn't in any better condition than what he already had in the local house, so rather than switching out the lanes, he just did another resurfacing cut and let it ride. This year, he has since come in and put out synthetic lanes of some type, but I haven't found out exactly which type yet. But I do know that the new lanes didn't help the scores out in the house any. The new surface is some type of solid synthetic surface, since every individual board on every lane looks the same now.

Author Topic: Guardian, friend or foe? (Read 2458 times)

Rantings

Guardian, friend or foe?

bass

Re: Guardian, friend or foe?

michelle

Re: Guardian, friend or foe?

98custom

Re: Guardian, friend or foe?

10 In The Pit

Re: Guardian, friend or foe?

DON DRAPER

Re: Guardian, friend or foe?

mumzie

Re: Guardian, friend or foe?

medang

Re: Guardian, friend or foe?

10 In The Pit

Re: Guardian, friend or foe?