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Author Topic: Im in a jam  (Read 3137 times)

SrKegler

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Im in a jam
« on: June 21, 2003, 08:42:09 PM »
Guys/gals, I’m in a real bind.  Bear with me.  Time to do some soul searching.

I’ve bowled on this particular league for 10 years.  It’s our company league, just really for fun.  Not much money involved.

My best friend started bowling his bowling career on this league.  We practiced together, I gave him my equipment when I dropped for 16 to 15#, hit every tournament together we could for the past 6 years.

This guy is the type who is always hot or cold.  He seems to shoot 250 or 150, never know.

This summer he talked me into joining a team at a house I absolutely loathe.  His daughter is one of the kids I coach and she pleaded with me to bowl there to help her out so I decided to do it.

3rd week of bowling my friend starts out with a 4 bagger.  He then opens the next 5 frames.  Misses the head pin each time even on the spare shot.  All through the game I was telling him he had moved to far inside.  He then showed me the league sheet and told me with the low averages the other teams had, he couldn’t afford to bowl good, we would need the handicap later.

All these years and I never realized he was sandbagging, just thought the disparity between games was a fluke.  I quit the league, kicked him off of my Hoinke team.

I also have one chronic whiner on our team.  You know the type, every ball that hits the head pin should strike.  Rants & raves, makes obscene gestures at the pins.  Just a real embarrassment to the team.  I had already decided not to invite him back for the next year.

There is also no way I can bowl with my friend again.  How will I ever know if his low games are from sandbagging or just natural mistakes.

On the other hand, us old folks can be pretty cranky.  Maybe I’m just blowing things out of proportion.

The easiest way out, it seems, is just not bowl this league in the winter.  That way at least the team will survive.

All opinions desperately needed.
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~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel
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JOE FALCO

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2003, 12:06:13 PM »
Easy SR KEG .. never pictured you as a guy that someone could get too. No use making enemies .. life is too short! I'd say TURN THE OTHER CHEEK!

Some guys COVER UP their BAD BOWLING by making EXCUSES .. I'd like to think that what your friend was doing. Why let a LONG TERM friendship slip away because of an ERRANT MOUTH! With all the people you met .. you had to come across this situation before .. I know it bothers you more when you first see it .. but .. the day will pass ..

I know you will do the right thing!

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Nicanor

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2003, 12:08:03 PM »
SrKegler,

Though you don't and probably won't bowl with him in leagues, you can still practice and bowl tournaments with your friend.  Team chemistry is important I believe and it seems like you have lost some of that with the two bowlers mentioned.  Yes sandbagging is part of todays game, though not within the rules or ethical, so if I were you, I would look for a couple of other bowlers to bowl with that will continue to make bowling fun.

V/R,
Nicanor
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

ThongPrincess

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2003, 01:50:42 AM »
As Nicanor stated, team chemistry is very important.  If I were you, I would try to get a new team together.  You shouldn't have to quit a league you have fun in because of a few people, but being on a team with people who annoy you or you can't trust is no fun.  I stuck out a summer league with a team that was the pits and it was the longest 13 weeks.
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10 In The Pit

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2003, 04:04:35 AM »
SrK., you do have a tough call, with the sandbagger being a close friend.  If he were just an acquaintance, it would be easier just not to invite him back again for the following season (and hope he didn't come back).  But in your case, there are some difficult twists in it.

I recall from personal experience that back about 10 years ago, I started worrying about my average getting higher than what I could maintain for tournaments.  I never sandbagged, but the worry was always there in the back of the mind.  Well, what I found out was that as long as I was worrying, I was actually having difficulty making the clutch shots needed to win points when it really counted.  So, I adopted the "bowl flat out" mentality, where I now go for maximum score on every single shot, regardless of whether it raises my average or not.  If I can't handle my average in tournaments, then so be it.  Since I went to the "bowl flat out" mentality, my clutch shot making has definitely improved.  

I do know of a couple of "known" sandbaggers in my area, and most bowlers don't even want to bowl with them.  One of them is very good at faking his game....he carries about a 170 average during leagues, but when there is some serious money on the line in a tournament, he'll bang a 700 series with no problem.  He plays the part pretty well....he masks his errant shots well enough that most bowlers wouldn't realize what is happening.  But like I mentioned, those bowlers "in the know" don't want to bowl with these known sandbaggers.  In fact, a friend of mine was bowling in a doubles tournament event with this one sandbagger fellow (the 170 averager), and when the sandbagger saw that they weren't going to be able to cash, he dumped the rest of the set.....my friend was very much aware of this "throw-off", and said that he would never bowl with him again.  The reason for the "throw-off" in this situation was to keep from being rerated in the particular tournament.  

I guess that I bowled in scratch leagues for too many years, because I really don't even think in handicap terms any more.  I just think in scratch terms, and let the handicap points fall where they will.

CoachJim

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2003, 05:53:22 AM »
How does the "bagger" friend preform in tournaments? Is he all over the place still, or does he always seem to do well? If he is all over the place it is like Joe said that he is covering up for his bad bowling. If he always does well in tournaments it might also be that he preforms well under pressure, or he just might be a bagger.

star

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2003, 08:20:41 AM »
I agree with coaches jim and tommy.
Speak to him and let him know how you feel about bagging.
You dont have to be forceful and the like, you can just talk about how bagging is ruining the sport and making good bowlers like his-self do things that are in esscene unsporting and dishonest.
Make him feel that he is being forced into this mentality by unscrupulous people and that he should make the decision to stand on the other side of the line with you and set the right example for his daughter.
Tell him that kids are more likely to follow the habits of their parents especially if they see them winning things and thats not why you coach them. You coach them to better human beings and better bowlers along the way.
If you do it correctly I think he will feel that he will be becoming a better person and a better bowler because of it.
I used to coach junior football (soccer) and I'll tell you what kids learn when they have fun goes a long way in their lives, but you probably already know that.
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livespive

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2003, 09:24:11 AM »
Just remember,

If indeed he is your "best friend" he will respect your decision.

It's the common ground we share that makes us friends and the ability
to overcome our differences that makes us best friends.

WOW!!! that was good for monday morning.  i might have to see if anyone ever made this up and I might have my own personal saying for a greeting card

Good luck on your descision Sr.

Eric
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OLI

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2003, 10:39:26 AM »
I would tell me how you feel.  I think most of us agree on that.  If you really wants to compete explain to him that winning is a lot better when you are honest to yourself.
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SrKegler

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2003, 12:00:17 PM »
Thanks for the answers.

After talking with some of my other team mates we may have came up with a solution.  He won't be bowling with us again.  He has also transferred to another department so he won't be working for me anymore.  It's no big loss to me, the only time we socialized was bowling.

If I had to guess, I would say we cashed about 90% of our handicap doubles.  Mainly because he could shoot so far above average.  Maybe I'm stupid and don't understand todays game.  I got more satisfaction out of winning than I did out of the money.  Knowing now that we won by cheating instead of ability is hard for me to handle.  I've just wasted 5 years.  How can I apologize to the other "ethical" teams we beat.  I can't think of anyway to return the money we stole from them.

It's hard to put my feelings into words.  My social life revolves around bowling.  The wife & I leave town every chance we get just to meet new people, see new places and relax.  Bowling to me has never been about winning but about competing.

I had a little tournament scheduled this weekend but withdrew from it.  I just don't know how to handle meeting people again with the sandbagging stigma that has now been attached to me.
I'm really ashamed to see some of my fellow competitors again.  I feel I have to apologize to them somehow but don't really know if I have the guts to do it or not.

Thanks again

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~~~SrK

Edited on 6/23/2003 12:04 PM
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OLI

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2003, 12:05:06 PM »
You are not responsible for his action.  I am sure if you knew sooner you would have reacted the same way and kick him off your team.  Don't let him stop you from being you.
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JOE FALCO

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2003, 12:24:23 PM »
SR KEG .. isn't it funny how our brain works? Yesterday when you didn't believe this person was BAGGING you were out there facing the world .. no matter what it threw at you .. Today because you assume someone has pulled the wool over your eyes .. you want to hide in some corner!

Although I CAN UNDERSTAND .. I WOULD NOT let that person put ME to shame. YOU have done NO WRONG. If I had a DOUBLES PARTNER that I won a tournament with .. I would assume we were good together and look for that person in the next tourney .. THAT'S LOGICAL! .. I think NO ONE would see YOU as the culprit. I'm sure you shot AVERAGE when bowling .. how could they FAULT YOU!

I would go out and continue whatever I had been doing before I KNEW OF THE INCIDENT. Hiding or AVOIDING people would be KNOCKING YOU DOWN TWICE!You MUST BE AT PEACE WITHIN YOURSELF .. and you do this knowing you did NO WRONG.

Peace be with you!

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NevadaBowl

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2003, 12:34:41 PM »
I have to go along with the team chemistry aspect.  You see it in all sports, the chemistry is either there or it isn't and if it is gone it is unlikely to come back.  

You need to assess your priorities.  If winning a title in a way that would give you the most satisfaction, without bagging, is your priority, then you need to build another team.  If winning on those terms is not a priority, then carry on as usual.

CoachJim

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2003, 04:56:47 AM »
You would have to ask yourself a question before you even think about apologizing to the other baggers, and that is have they ever apologized to you?

No?

I didn't think so. It seems like the theory of bowling in today's game is "bowl as bad as you possibly can and still win".

I Bowled up in PA at the Lebanon tournament and someone last year set the singles record with 936 for 3 games. Yes he averaged 312 with handicap for 3 games. This person should have had the cops waiting on him. Not only did they allow this bank robber to win, they posted his name up and made a big banner for him. I asked the tournament director if this person had a gun with him when he was bowling that way I could at least feel like I got robbed with some dignity.

This is probably the type of person you will be apologizing to. At least the tournaments you did win I'm sure you left room for someone to step up and beat you, just nobody did. Not like the jerk I mentioned above. I hope he gets his bowling arm torn off.

My suggestion is just bowl in scratch tournaments and you will not need to worry about it.

10 In The Pit

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Re: Im in a jam
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2003, 05:51:59 AM »
Star hit on a very good point that this fellow is setting a "fine" example for his daughter to follow by keeping his average down.  Pointing this fact out to the dude might make him take a different viewpoint on the issue.  But again, since your situation is changing, maybe some other unlucky one will get the chance to set things straight.

As for your worrying about cashing in 90% of the tournaments that you entered, don't sweat the details, because you really don't know whether he is that capable of a bowler at all times, or if he shifts gears mentally when in a very competitive environment.  If he gets psyched up for tournaments, then there is a possibility that he does indeed perform better under those conditions versus the everyday league setting......some bowlers are like that, even though they might not be making a determined effort to do so.  This could actually be a case where the fellow performs better under pressure, in which case his higher tournament games could be seen as more legitimate.  You'll never know the exact truth, and even the sandbagger may not realize that there is more going on than he thinks.

Don't let this event keep you out of tournaments, because it was something that was out of your control.  And, the fellow could possibly suffer from a lack of competition in handicap leagues.  One of the best ways for him to break the habit would be to get involved in a scratch league......when you are bowling heads up, each game of league is like a tournament....it might just wake him up.  If he is afraid to bowl in a scratch league, then I might have to agree that your worst fears might have more creedence.  I bowled in scratch leagues for quite a few years, and I can't think of a single scratch league bowler that even thought in terms of handicap scores afterwards.....what you see is what you get.  Once you hit about a 170 average, the quickest way to improve your game is to get involved in scratch leagues, because they force you to try harder.  And in my scratch leagues, we used the Petersen Point System, so an individual was always looking straight across the recap sheet at the bowler that they were paired up against, in addition to looking at the team performance....with this system, an individual can still be picking up points and money even if the team is not winning.

Good luck.