Author Topic: Mad as @*$?! (Read 1443 times)

Coolerman · « **on:** February 08, 2010, 05:58:43 AM »

Because a local high school coach,told one of my youth bowlers,that he could not bowl
for his high school team, unless he put his thumb in the ball.The youth has not tried out yet,
he will have to wait until next season.This youth gets about 400 + revs on the ball, 14 yrs old,but is
really not mentally committed to the sport.He is involved in three other sports,and his heart
is not really into bowling as of yet.I have tried to help him during league,but it's hard to get him
to be consistent only working with him during league.When you have other bowlers you are
trying help,it's not fair spending all the time with him.He could get free coaching
from all of the coaches after bowling,but his parents don't have the time after league.They
don't have the time to let him stay.
My problem is, a coach telling a kid he can't be on the team because of a certain style.
I have a 5 year old in the bantams that is averaging 70,he uses the two handed style,and
hooks the ball.Are you going to tell Ichiro,that he can't be on your team because of hi style?
Is this coach serious,or he just doesn't like the thumbless style,or he's afraid of the style
because he doesn't know how to coach this style.
I would never discourage any of may youth bowlers from going away from what they do
best.I would work harder on the things that are wrong in their game,and improve upon the things
they do well.
" Some" high school coaches need to get a Major Clue!!

tee

EagleHunter · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2010, 03:34:09 PM »

It sounds like something is missing.

The youth doesn't use his thumb and he gets 400+ revs on the ball...so? This doesn't mean you have a prodigy on your hands. You suggest the youth doesn't have his head in the game and isn't terribly committed to the sport. If that is the case, and the youth doesn't take the sport remotely seriously, should the coach of a high school team put forth the effort in an attempt to change him?

As for the coach...who told you the youth wouldn't be able to bowl? Did you hear it from the youth or directly from the coach? If you didn't hear it directly from the coach, then I would investigate it further before making assumptions about the coach's intentions.

If the coach blatantly refused to accept a bowler based solely on his/her style, then that coach does have an issue. But until you can prove such a bias, which would involve talking directly to the coach to see what discussion was had, I would reserve such a judgement about the coach. That is not to say that there are not some HORRIBLE coaches out there...there most certainly are. But there are ways to prove such ineptitude.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2010, 03:53:46 PM »

+1 for EH reply

Also keep in mind if the coach feels he is better suited bowling with his thumb in the ball then why not try it. If he were that good the style wouldn't matter but it appears he isn't and needs coaching. He also has a lot going on besides bowling and probably doesn't care one way or another. If he is more interested in other HS sports then bowling on the HS team will only get in the way.

If he put in the effort or cared that much about bowling and HS bowling he would have already been practicing to improve his style of bowling to prove that he is worth considering even for how he throws the ball. It sounds like bowling is an after thought and a sport he will go to after HS or college when the other sports are no longer available.
--------------------
" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "

Coolerman · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2010, 04:04:03 PM »

This is the third time this year this youth was told this.The mother told me also, that this
coach told her the same thing.This coach holds one of the schools practices at the.house our youth
league is at.This coach comes in 10 minutes late almost every week.The kids are
practicing or just messing around when he gets there.Then to make matters worse,he
shows up like a character from Deadliest Catch.Then he just stands there watching the
kids bowl.offering little in the way of hands on coaching.Some of kids are with their girlfriends
or boyfriends fooling around.
On two occasions,a few of the bowlers asked me for help when I was next to them practicing.
The coaches were not even there yet ,when they ask me.So I gave them help.Of course I turn
into the bad guy for helping his kids that he cares for so much.So I try not to be there
when they are practicing . So I know what I'm talking in regards to this coaches attitude.

RevLefty · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2010, 04:10:05 PM »

Was his name Dan Dorian.lol It happens at all levels it is very sad. Talent is talent and as the pba tour shows it not a certain style or way that you throw the ball it is how you use that particular style or talent. The reason I mention this this same comment was made to me at the college level at a very good bowling school quite a few years ago and it really turned me off to bowling at the collegiate level never did do it. Really hope this youth doesnt get discourage from the statement there are alot of people out there that are just haters for lack of a better term. He can fight it im sure there is tryouts and if he shines there is no way that coach can keep him out if so you petition the local school district on his position. Sadly it happens all the time.
--------------------
Back on the left side of the lane trying to hammer out my game.

Coolerman · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2010, 04:35:31 PM »

This kids average went up from 120 to 170 over two years.From the time he was 11 to 13.This
year he has spent more time doing other sports he enjoys.He is 14 this year, and is spending
less time at the center during league.He has missed 6 weeks this year,last year he never missed.
He is at other practices for other sports on Saturday.It is not of my opinion that this kid will
be a super star or just another kid that will just enjoy bowling into his adult life.As far as
making the team,the school is in last place in their conference.The highest average on the team
is 180,the other boys are 160 and way below.
I don't think this coach sees something to make him think, that putting the thumb will
make him better.I just see a coach telling a kid ,that there is only way to do a movement
correctly and it's his way!
It's no wonder that bowling is losing the kids.Most of the coaches see things with blinders on.

EagleHunter · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2010, 09:53:46 PM »

Look...I'm going to be honest about this. This thread seems to be turning into a FIGJAM, both for you, as well as the youth.

Bottom line, it appears that you have NOT talked to the coach, and based on your replies you have not. In addition, your constant need to insult the coach, based on appearance or otherwise, seems to lend itself to an "agenda," of sorts.

Look, some coaches, especially school bowling coaches, are only there to fill time. Perhaps that is what is happening here, but you have offered little (if anything) in support of your position. You have heard this story ONLY from the youth and his parent (I've never seem a parent take something a coach said personally and then hold a grudge, have you?). Second, you have bashed his appearance, the school, and the quality of the team's bowlers. None of this lends itself toward a persuasive argument on your part.

If you REALLY have such a problem with the coach there is a solution. Document all of his ineptitude and contact the school. Present the athletic department with the evidence and then offer YOUR expertise to the school as the new coach.

Lastly, any parent who is serious about getting their youth training, in any sport, should contact a certified coach in that particular sport. Expecting any school coach to turn things around is laughable. With few exceptions, usually in the BIG sports (football, basketball, baseball), the coaches know the sports but not necessarily the techniques for improvement.

You want your kid in bowling, find a USBC certified coach. If golf is his/her game, then sign them up with First Tee. For other sports, find certified instructional leagues or camps. But to expect a school coach to work wonders, when most have other full-time jobs and are coaching to help out...that is simply misguided.

completebowler · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2010, 10:50:30 PM »

I tend to agree with the coach. Any decent amateur coach should be teaching young people fundamentals.

My best friend throws with no thumb. I have been trying to get him to switch for years. He has ten or so 300's and 3 800's. We went to a Voss/Duke clinic a few years back and the first thing they said was "what can we do to get you to throw with your thumb in the ball"?

Although we can all point to pro athletes who have unorthodox styles that work it is the job of a junior level coach to teach fundamentals. It is also the quickest way to see REAL improvements.

If the kid isn't serious about learning the proper technique then he can have fun screwing around open/league bowling.

--------------------

Coolerman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2010, 07:58:18 AM »

A couple of final points on this subject.Then that's it!

This is not a FIGJAM for the youth or myself.The averages of the youth are
just a scale to indicate the progress he made when he was interested.

As far as our coaches go,we have two Silver Level Coaches and myself
with 20 plus years of coaching.

Some thoughts on coaching.Average coaches don't think about each athlete's
learning style,they usually coach in the way they were coached as a youth
or adult.But good coaches try to learn what the differences are in each
individual learning style to help max. the instruction to help each athlete.

The traditional coach ignores learning strategies,and instead focuses
on filling the athlete with all the information they can.The athlete freedom
of learning is restricted,as they are forced to learn the coaches approach.
The athlete is so filled with instruction that they never develop their
the motor skills ,because they are not given freedom to find their own niche.

Today many coaches believe that more instruction is better.There is no
absolute in coachingeveryone has their own style and own way.Some coaches
are very technical and break every movement into minute pieces.Other
coaches instruct less and allow athletes to learn by doing.Both ways in
itself are going to be ineffective.There needs to be a happy medium of techniques.

The best coaches in skill development,are the ones who have the technical
knowledge,but also understand the manner in which a athlete learns and grows.
When coaching,the more effective way to teach the athlete a skill is to
guide the athlete through the learning process,not force-feed the athlete
with every answer.Instead of telling a athlete exactly where the arm should
be and the legs need to be,and what target to look at,the coach should offer
suggestion as needed to help the athlete find their own method.Then the coach
needs to proceed from that point with some more basic fundamentals.

As a coach,you are a teacher and motivator,using only one method over
and over again limits your effectiveness as a coach.
The learning process cannot and should not be rushed.Every athlete has
a different speed of learning.Much to often in youth sports the coach
is focusing on the skill development rather than developing proper
motor skills.The coach is trying to teach a skill that may be simple
to them,but is not simple to the young athlete.So the coach gets upset
an reverts back to even more rote practice.Find out what level of learning
style the youth is and the teaching becomes easier.

The new USBC Head coach Rod Ross, wants you to let the young athlete
throw the ball as hard as they want,because you can't teach speed,let them
learn this motor skill on their own,then some of the other fundamentals
can be worked in.There are correct ways to do things in all sports,but
each person has their own way to learn.The coach should encourage not
discourage.

CPA · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2010, 10:00:15 AM »

The parents should discuss their concerns regarding being late, lack of coaching, etc. with the current coach. If the parents are not satisfied with the outcome or results, the next step is to bring their concerns to the school's athletic director.

--------------------
USBC Silver Level Coach

milorafferty · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2010, 03:07:40 PM »

quote:
A couple of final points on this subject.Then that's it!

This is not a FIGJAM for the youth or myself.The averages of the youth are
just a scale to indicate the progress he made when he was interested.

As far as our coaches go,we have two Silver Level Coaches and myself
with 20 plus years of coaching.

Some thoughts on coaching.Average coaches don't think about each athlete's
learning style,they usually coach in the way they were coached as a youth
or adult.But good coaches try to learn what the differences are in each
individual learning style to help max. the instruction to help each athlete.

The traditional coach ignores learning strategies,and instead focuses
on filling the athlete with all the information they can.The athlete freedom
of learning is restricted,as they are forced to learn the coaches approach.
The athlete is so filled with instruction that they never develop their
the motor skills ,because they are not given freedom to find their own niche.

Today many coaches believe that more instruction is better.There is no
absolute in coachingeveryone has their own style and own way.Some coaches
are very technical and break every movement into minute pieces.Other
coaches instruct less and allow athletes to learn by doing.Both ways in
itself are going to be ineffective.There needs to be a happy medium of techniques.

The best coaches in skill development,are the ones who have the technical
knowledge,but also understand the manner in which a athlete learns and grows.
When coaching,the more effective way to teach the athlete a skill is to
guide the athlete through the learning process,not force-feed the athlete
with every answer.Instead of telling a athlete exactly where the arm should
be and the legs need to be,and what target to look at,the coach should offer
suggestion as needed to help the athlete find their own method.Then the coach
needs to proceed from that point with some more basic fundamentals.

As a coach,you are a teacher and motivator,using only one method over
and over again limits your effectiveness as a coach.
The learning process cannot and should not be rushed.Every athlete has
a different speed of learning.Much to often in youth sports the coach
is focusing on the skill development rather than developing proper
motor skills.The coach is trying to teach a skill that may be simple
to them,but is not simple to the young athlete.So the coach gets upset
an reverts back to even more rote practice.Find out what level of learning
style the youth is and the teaching becomes easier.

The new USBC Head coach Rod Ross, wants you to let the young athlete
throw the ball as hard as they want,because you can't teach speed,let them
learn this motor skill on their own,then some of the other fundamentals
can be worked in.There are correct ways to do things in all sports,but
each person has their own way to learn.The coach should encourage not
discourage.

I've had lessons from Rod Ross and he wasn't teaching the "throw the ball as hard as they want" method. Rod and Theresa both believe in the free arm swing method. Or at least they did when I took lessons from them.
--------------------
Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!

jls · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2010, 11:31:52 AM »

quote:
Because a local high school coach,told one of my youth bowlers,that he could not bowl
for his high school team, unless he put his thumb in the ball.The youth has not tried out yet,
he will have to wait until next season.This youth gets about 400 + revs on the ball, 14 yrs old,but is
really not mentally committed to the sport.He is involved in three other sports,and his heart
is not really into bowling as of yet.I have tried to help him during league,but it's hard to get him
to be consistent only working with him during league.When you have other bowlers you are
trying help,it's not fair spending all the time with him.He could get free coaching
from all of the coaches after bowling,but his parents don't have the time after league.They
don't have the time to let him stay.
My problem is, a coach telling a kid he can't be on the team because of a certain style.
I have a 5 year old in the bantams that is averaging 70,he uses the two handed style,and
hooks the ball.Are you going to tell Ichiro,that he can't be on your team because of hi style?
Is this coach serious,or he just doesn't like the thumbless style,or he's afraid of the style
because he doesn't know how to coach this style.
I would never discourage any of may youth bowlers from going away from what they do
best.I would work harder on the things that are wrong in their game,and improve upon the things
they do well.
" Some" high school coaches need to get a Major Clue!!

tee

You left out this, can the kid pick up a ten pin...Hooking the ball doesn't make one a bowler...

Maybe the coach knows more then you think...

Maybe you know more then the coach...

Therefore, why don't you become the coach...

And then you're whole team can be made up of no thumbers....

I seriously wonder, would you tell the football coach or the baseball coach, or the basketball coach, how to coach...

How are you on drilling....

I see no thumbers all the time.... By the time they hit 30, they have no elbow left....
--------------------
jls "Obama, you wanna see my truck"

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2010, 05:30:03 PM »

Also is the coach a full time coach at the school or some one who volunteers? Many bowling coaches are volunteers because no one else wants to at the school, and have to come from other jobs or whatever to help.
--------------------
" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "

Author Topic: Mad as @*$?! (Read 1443 times)

Coolerman

Mad as @*$?!

EagleHunter

Re: Mad as @*$?!

kidlost2000

Re: Mad as @*$?!

Coolerman

Re: Mad as @*$?!

RevLefty

Re: Mad as @*$?!

Coolerman

Re: Mad as @*$?!

EagleHunter

Re: Mad as @*$?!

completebowler

Re: Mad as @*$?!

Coolerman

Re: Mad as @*$?!

CPA

Re: Mad as @*$?!

milorafferty

Re: Mad as @*$?!

jls

Re: Mad as @*$?!

kidlost2000

Re: Mad as @*$?!