Author Topic: handicap league rant... (Read 6978 times)

RyanRPS · « **on:** May 28, 2008, 11:32:43 AM »

4 weeks ago we finished our main league, the Night Owls Mens Doubles... a handicap league at our local centre.

We won the league and acompanying KO Cup last year in a great season, and where quietly confident for this year.

Well, at the end of the season, we had the high team average scratch... and finshed 5th!! sickened!

Into the KnockOut and we scraped through the group stages into the Quarter finals, and on a piss poor condition we got beaten by straightbowling fluffers in a luck contest to go out... not impressed!

Any time we complain about handicaps, we get the same answer... "its a handicap league".. which would be a valid answer of there was a scratch alternative... but there isnt

really makes you wonder why you bother!

Ah well... on to the world cup qualifier... at least thats scratch and played on some oil!

Ryan

Steven · « **Reply #16 on:** May 29, 2008, 01:57:30 PM »

quote:
Does anyone remember that the ABC had calculated that, on average, for all the teams and leagues that existed the handicap, in order for all teams to be on equal footing, had to be 110%!

Yes, I've read this, and it's one of the more bogus ABC claims to date.

In a world where lower average teams are actually improving over the course of a year, higher average teams are behind the 8-ball. Most 210-230 average bowlers have reached their plateau, so improvement opportunities are few to none. The improving lower average teams have a clear advantage.

This is not theory or conjecture. For several years I was in a 640 max trio league (90% of 220 handicap). We were consistently the highest average entering team in the league, coming in at 637-640. We always ended up in the bottom half of the standings, losing out to lower average teams that progressively got better, especially in the second half.

There was nothing funny or unethical going on, just the natural dynamics of less experienced bowlers getting better. In my case, I decided I'd had enough of handicap and have been bowling exclusively scratch in the 7 years since with absolutely no regrets.

Handicap is what it is, so if it frustrates you, find scratch competition.
--------------------
"Sometimes, the best move is the one we don't make"

tenpin477 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 29, 2008, 02:32:38 PM »

If the sub averaging 105 is within the rules, then just tell them if you dont like it, vote out subs next year.

Personally I disagree with subs in a Handicap league anyway. I dont think that type of environment should allow subs. A Scratch league absolutely, but not a handicap league.

Edited on 5/29/2008 2:39 PM

trash heap · « **Reply #18 on:** May 29, 2008, 02:48:58 PM »

What's the issue with subs in a handicap league?

tenpin477 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2008, 03:00:19 PM »

Exactly for the reasons you posted lol. What you did was completely legal, its just because of thins like that, I dont think handicap leagues should have subs.

Getting a 105 sub for a 175 bowler gives you more of an advantage. Again, its legal so you really cant complain about it, all you can do is try to change the rules next year.

shelley · « **Reply #20 on:** May 29, 2008, 03:15:06 PM »

quote:
Getting a 105 sub for a 175 bowler gives you more of an advantage.

Only if you're bowling against people that can't do third-grade math. Or have your own difficulties with third grade math. Or both.

Given the number of people who whine about handicap, I suspect our mathematical education system in this country is sorely lacking.

SH

trash heap · « **Reply #21 on:** May 29, 2008, 03:18:17 PM »

There was no advantage. She bowled below her average for two games. It would have been the same if my wife bowled two games of 160.

You might have a case if a bowler with 105 average throws 170s or 180s but that was not the scenario.

tenpin477 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 29, 2008, 09:02:44 PM »

I didnt whine about handicap in general, I just said I disagree with subs in a handicap league.

If they are going to be implemented, handicap should be based off the league members average, not the subs.

Handicap in a Handicap league is good thing, I just dont think you should be able to use subs. You are already getting extra pins, thats enough of a sub.

trash heap · « **Reply #23 on:** May 29, 2008, 10:05:07 PM »

quote:
Handicap in a Handicap league is good thing, I just dont think you should be able to use subs. You are already getting extra pins, thats enough of a sub.

Let see if I can this straight. Instead of the sub getting handicap based off his/her average the handicap should remain the same for the team.

So its okay if I have 105 average bowler on my team and I get a sub with a 200 average. My team still keeps the handicap of the 105 bowler being replaced.

ibowled286 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 29, 2008, 10:24:35 PM »

I think what tenpen is talking about is when you have a sub from a different house or a different league, and has a low avg comes to sub and bowls well. I dont know if thats the way it is at your bowling center, but most centers if a sub doesnt have an avg for that league they they set the first week they sub and thats fair. As for the 105 avg bowling subbing there is no problem with that, and if you look at it, it actually makes it easier for the other team.

tenpin477 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 30, 2008, 06:17:19 AM »

If league rules say you can then yeah, although most leagues around here limit subs to being at or under the bowler they are subbing for. A 200 could not sub for a 105, but a 105 could sub for a 200, and your teams handicap should not change.

Edited on 5/30/2008 6:17 AM

Grayson · « **Reply #26 on:** May 30, 2008, 06:27:07 AM »

here the average is calculated from the games play ON the lanes here. an from this result the handicap is then calculated.

When the gal/pal plays first time... the same:
the handicap is calculated for those games and the nadded to those games... based on those games.

No you can imagine that there is a lot of strategy behind this if you have a sub and need high handicap you "let" him (assuming gals are not so rotten

) suck the first game to get a very high handicap for the following.
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RyanRPS · « **Reply #27 on:** May 30, 2008, 07:40:19 AM »

quote:
Start up a scratch league yourself than. Im sure there are other bowlers like you who would bowl.

See atleast my house theres is a Scratch League, too bad I wont get to bowl in it, as my first year as an adult I will be away at college.

There is no scratch league at present, and there are about only 10 players at most who would play a scratch league.. we have no option but to play the handicap league

quote:

Not sure what your handicap is based on but most leagues are 90% of 220 or something to that effect. This still gives the advantage to the higher average bowler. If you hit your average and they do too, you win.

true.... however it is harder for a 220 average player to shoot over average than it is for alower average player... if a player opens on average 4 frames a game then they only need to spare 1 more shot to add 10 pins or so... for a 220 average player to up their average by 10 they need to string several strikes! The lower average players are generally the straighter bowlers too, whos averages dont change if the conditions are poor one week, while the higher average players are more at the mercy of the lane man! have a dry pattern out one week your playing a straighter team, and your sunk!

Ryan

Edited on 5/30/2008 7:43 AM

ibowled286 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 30, 2008, 07:52:55 AM »

well if there is a dry pattern laid out get yourself a urethane or plastic ball drilled up, and out bowl them anyways.

janderson · « **Reply #29 on:** May 30, 2008, 08:04:05 AM »

quote:
we got beaten by straightbowling fluffers in a luck contest to go out... not impressed!

Don't kid yourself. This happens in scratch leagues as much as handicap leagues. Luck always plays a role, but things have a way of evening out, but on any given night...

A team on a cap-free scratch league loaded itself up with the top professionals in the area. While everyone expected them to win - on paper it was not even close - they finished 6th (out of 14).

Moving to a scratch league doesn't guarantee you victory either.

--------------------
J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King : Kill the back row

Edited on 5/30/2008 8:05 AM

trash heap · « **Reply #30 on:** May 30, 2008, 08:41:41 AM »

quote:
true.... however it is harder for a 220 average player to shoot over average than it is for alower average player... if a player opens on average 4 frames a game then they only need to spare 1 more shot to add 10 pins or so... for a 220 average player to up their average by 10 they need to string several strikes! The lower average players are generally the straighter bowlers too, whos averages dont change if the conditions are poor one week, while the higher average players are more at the mercy of the lane man! have a dry pattern out one week your playing a straighter team, and your sunk!

Sorry but this entirely wrong!!

You make the 220 average player a consistent bowler all the time. Only bowls between 210 - 240. You know that is not the case. If someone is averaging 220 they will have nights bowling 250, 260, and then bowl a game under 200. They also have nights that they bowl 700+ series.

Its the same for someone with a lower average. A bowler with a 170 average will bowl 190, 180, and a 200+ game one week. The following week they bowl a 150, 140, and 170.

You have complainers on both sides of the fence and most of the complaining is done when its not in their favor.

The simple solution to this argument is to toughen up the condition (bring down the inflated games across the board), but 99% of the complainers don't want that. So they continue to whine that someone has an unfair advantage.

Author Topic: handicap league rant... (Read 6978 times)

RyanRPS

handicap league rant...

Steven

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tenpin477

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trash heap

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tenpin477

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shelley

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trash heap

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tenpin477

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trash heap

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ibowled286

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tenpin477

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Grayson

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RyanRPS

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ibowled286

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janderson

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trash heap

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