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Author Topic: Handicap opinions  (Read 6468 times)

lilpossum1

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Handicap opinions
« on: July 22, 2015, 08:07:41 PM »
I know this has probably been covered a million times, but my dad and I are thinking about trying to get our winter league (8 team league that mostly consists of low average people) to move from 80% to 90% handicap to adjust fairness across the teams. I never really saw this as much of an issue before because I have always been on the competitive teams in that league and have always had the most points even when my team didn't win the league. On this summer league however, a team has come in with all high average guys and the handicap at 80% is not enough for any team to touch them. I see what my teams have been doing in the winter league from the other side of the perspective and want to make it more fair. Thoughts? I also know the argument that other bowlers can get better if they want to win, but sometimes there are physical limitations

 

Bowler19525

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Re: Handicap opinions
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2015, 12:18:55 PM »
My current league is 90% of the difference between the total of the team members' averages.

Last night our team was giving the other team 207 pins PER GAME (712 vs. 482).  We still won 2 out of 3 games.  The game we lost was only by 40 pins.  Two of us struggled that game...had we bowled our average we would have easily won.

spmcgivern

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Re: Handicap opinions
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2015, 12:40:29 PM »
My current league is 90% of the difference between the total of the team members' averages.

Last night our team was giving the other team 207 pins PER GAME (712 vs. 482).  We still won 2 out of 3 games.  The game we lost was only by 40 pins.  Two of us struggled that game...had we bowled our average we would have easily won.

This is what I prefer.  And it isn't any different than basing the handicap on the highest average in the league assuming no one ever averages higher during the year. (also works out the same with a 300 base).

It all comes down to presentation.  We bowlers are not too bright at times.  If the high average in a league is 220 and you base the average on 230, then everyone gets handicap.  So changing it to 225 or 250 doesn't change the outcome but it might change the perception.  Some high average bowlers see handicap at 90% of 225 (avg 220) and feel a certain way about their 4 pins.  Change it to 250 and they now get 27 pins.  Doesn't change the outcome on a game-by-game basis but they might feel better getting the extra 23 pins.

txbowler

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Re: Handicap opinions
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2015, 01:00:15 PM »
I agree with the 90% of the differences between the team's averages. 

USBC did some studies several years ago and said it needed to be 111% or some number like that for a handicap team to have a totally even match up  based on scores nationwide.  But USBC also operates in that sandbagging is nearly impossible to prove.

What some leagues I have participated in have done is divide the league into thirds or quarters.  It's the casino idea.  Over the long haul, the top average team will most always win a league (casino always makes money).  However over a short time period a lower average team can have a hot quarter and win that quarter (hot run at tables or slots for a visit).

Then some leagues have a end of year tournament for the winners of each quarter or third bowl in a bracket or total pin event.

Steven

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Re: Handicap opinions
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2015, 01:20:56 PM »
I agree with the 90% of the differences between the team's averages. 


If you're going to bowl handicap, ditto……
 
Anytime you mix low average bowlers with high average bowlers, and try to come up with something that's "fair", you're doomed. These handicap threads pop up like relentless weeds because there are too many variables to come up with a system that isn't fatally flawed.
 
The best system I've participated in on fairness is team capped scratch, with a limit on minimum average. It's not perfect, but assuming the entering team averages are realistic, and teams are constructed close to the max, you have fair competition without all the nonsense associated with handicap formats.
 
Unfortunately, when you use the word "scratch" in any context, the majority of league bowlers run for the exits. The irony is that most bowlers who try capped scratch have a hard time going back to traditional handicap.

Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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Re: Handicap opinions
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2015, 02:49:57 PM »
Think a lot depends on the bowling population you have to draw from. Our area has 2 centers and approximately 1500 sanctioned bowlers. We have a league in each house that is individual scratch, but 100% handicap bases on difference of teams averaged. Both leagues were capped at 800 and one league had 14 teams, the other had 8 (on military base with 12 lanes) the league downtown removed there cap because the team with highest average whined because they did not want to bowl with anyone else. That league is now down to 6 teams and the league on base with same format that is capped is now at 12 teams. Lower average bowlers were tired of paying $16 to get ass whipped every night. Sometimes not catering to the higher average bowler is what brings business and fills leagues.
J. Helton
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Steven

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Re: Handicap opinions
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2015, 06:43:23 PM »
Think a lot depends on the bowling population you have to draw from. Our area has 2 centers and approximately 1500 sanctioned bowlers. We have a league in each house that is individual scratch, but 100% handicap bases on difference of teams averaged. Both leagues were capped at 800 and one league had 14 teams, the other had 8 (on military base with 12 lanes) the league downtown removed there cap because the team with highest average whined because they did not want to bowl with anyone else. That league is now down to 6 teams and the league on base with same format that is capped is now at 12 teams. Lower average bowlers were tired of paying $16 to get ass whipped every night. Sometimes not catering to the higher average bowler is what brings business and fills leagues.

 
Managing any league with a team cap requires discipline. At the end of the season, you have to recalculate next year's max based on current team averages, and establish a number that's best to sustain the league.
 
We recently went through that process, and this year's league champion whined that they'd be over the new max and have to break up. They threatened to leave unless the max was raised to fit them. They were politely shown the door and will not be back. Apparently, the leagues in your area didn't do the same.
 
Caps work well if they're managed correctly. You gave a perfect example of why they sometimes don't. 

txbowler

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Re: Handicap opinions
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2015, 09:48:44 PM »
To further Steven's point, I was in a couple leagues where they flourished because the top averages in the area belonged to 2 "clicks" that hated each other.  As the money rose, the greed factor took over the hatred and the top 4 guys formed a team as there wasn't a cap.  Of course they won.  And within 3 years the league lost 70% of it's membership.

Few bowlers want to bowl with no shot at winning (beer drinking friends, aside).  All teams have to think they have a chance at a top finish or why would they bowl?  That is the goal.  In the end of every league, 75% of teams are donators.  The key is they can't know that to start the league or they won't bowl.