Author Topic: Handicap? (Read 4939 times)

sevenpin63 · « **on:** June 16, 2010, 11:22:08 AM »

Well here is the story.

My mixed league I am on recently raised the handicap from 80% of 200, to 90% of 220. This is my fun league I bowl with my wife. You see I have been on this league for 7 years now and the lowest we have finished is 4th place but have finished first 4 times. And this year I had a very good year, the funny thing is I had no honor scores but I finished with a 227 average, the reason they changed the handicap.

Now my wife could care less but the other couple on my team are all upset about the handicap saying it is not fair. Me I can see there point they are penalizing me for having a good year, but I also consider it a challenge to beat them again. But it is not fair for the rest of my team.

I mean some teams are going to have over 300 in handicap (4 person teams) if they finish like they did last year, this is per game. They want to try to get it back down to a more reasonable handicap.

Question how would you handle this. Leave it as is or try to do something about it.
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DON''''T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS

Edited on 6/16/2010 7:22 PM

shelley · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2010, 08:01:16 PM »

What's the fscking problem? Everyone will get more handicap. Except you. You'll lose that nice 27-35-pin advantage you had over every other bowler in the league. For you, it will be more fair in the sense that everyone will have a roughly equal chance of winning (that is what handicap means for the mathematically-challenged like Brian and, apparently, gsmack).

80%? 90%? Who knows what the right percentage is. It'll depend on how much of an advantage you want to give the higher average bowler. I do know, however, that 230 is a better choice than 220 given that you averaged 227.

Again, that's based on a statistical, not emotional or nostalgic definition of "fair". If your definition of "fair" is emotional (high averages deserve to win) or nostalgic (200 was the magic number 40 years ago) then your brain is hopelessly and fundamentally broken.

I would leave it as is.

SH

BrianCRX90 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2010, 08:04:18 PM »

Exactly. Besides quitting the league I would have a fit. I never understood why penalizing the few is good for the many. So what if one, two or three or more average 220. How did the other bowlers do?
Why I hate handicap leagues that can change the handicap to whatever they want. There should be a USBC rule stating after a week or so the handicap is based on the average of the league...not one or two people that is averaging high.

I have one league that has been 90% of 210 since 1990 god knows and have been bowling in it every year and season since 1996 and we have had up and down years between what people average when the season is over and what the high average bowler was. The people that have tried to increase that are 170 average bowlers that tried to change it but denied.

On the flipside I have been on a league for 10 years where the average for whatever reason was 95% of 220 and I tried to get it to 90% of 210 (like that's asking a lot) and was turned down every time.

LotsaBalls · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2010, 08:35:51 PM »

90% from 220, I would love that. Our area has raised alot of leagues and tournaments to 90% from 240. That is why I am giving up on league bowl after this past season. I am starting a scratch PBA experiance league in the fall just so I can stay sharp for tournaments. It is really getting out of hand around here, there was a 3 person tourney that ran for 6 weekends recently and it took over 2400 just to cash.

shelley · « **Reply #4 on:** June 16, 2010, 08:40:26 PM »

quote:
There should be a USBC rule stating after a week or so the handicap is based on the average of the league...not one or two people that is averaging high.

That's a different story and not the way I interpreted what the OP said. My understanding was that this was the beginning of the summer season or end of the fall season where they are voting on next year's rules. I would be 100%, absolutely opposed to changing the handicap mid-season to compensate for the high average bowlers. If I averaged 220+ like that, I might be tempted to quit.

There's an appropriate time to change the rules and even one week after the league has started is the wrong time. That's why the USBC requires 100% of the league's board of directors (officers+captains) to approve rule changes.

However, at the league meeting to end the year or kick off the year, if the league voted to change from 200/80 to 220/90 that's fine. That's the right time to do it.

SH

shelley · « **Reply #5 on:** June 16, 2010, 08:43:49 PM »

quote:
there was a 3 person tourney that ran for 6 weekends recently and it took over 2400 just to cash.

So? With 90% of 240, if you shoot your average you're looking at a 700+ set with handicap. If you average 230 (which I consider to be pretty lofty), you still get 9 pins of handicap and just shooting average you're looking at a 717 set. 2400 is 800 a man, and with that kind of handicap, you're only about 20-25 pins over average for each game.

Perhaps you have mathematical problems similar to Brian. Or this is where you say "Oh, when you break it down like that, it doesn't seem unreasonable at all."

SH

sevenpin63 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:06:07 PM »

This was at the end of my winter league, making new rules for next year.

I was thinking of letting it go and see what happens next year but my other two teammates are in an uproar over this.

This will help my wife out as she only averages in the 130''s. But we had the lowest handicap already last year. We took first but its not liked we kicked everybody azz week in and week out. The teams we gave alot of pins too were the hardest to beat, it usually came down to who performed in the 10th frame. We usually had an easier time with the average teams.

I have already been asked why I am in this league, that I am to good to be in this league. I tell them that this is the league I bowl with my wife, kinda like our night out together away from the rat race.
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DON''T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS

Edited on 6/16/2010 9:34 PM

charlest · « **Reply #7 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:22:17 PM »

sevenpin,

This should be a fun league. 90% of the highest average in the league is not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination. Some of the people who replied were a little curt, but they were telling the truth, as I also see it.

This summer I joined a new league, also mixed handicap. I learned the handicap was 80% of 200, even though there are several of us who are well above 200. I questioned the secretary, very discreetly, because I'm a newbie here, didn't know him and dodn't want to sound nasty. I pointed out that there were people above that. He said he knew and that was the league rule. It's not fair. And there's no negative handicap. So be it.

Several years ago, the ABC (before it became the USBC) did a handicap study. It was learned that to make things even, handicap in such a league should be 110% of the highest average. Only then would a lower average team win 50% of the time against a higher average team. That would actually even the scores.

WHat do you think would happen if you proposed a handicap percentage of 110% ??

Just be lucky you got away with your 25+ pins over 200 for so many years.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

rvmark · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:40:49 PM »

I have to agree with Charlest on this one sevenpin63. I bowl with my wife in a mixed league and while our team gives pins to all but one or two of the 20 teams in the league and while we have a tougher time beating the lower teams we have been in the top half of the league every year for the last 5. Our league has adjusted the handicap in the league over the years based off of the higher average bowlers in the league, this is what handicap is meant to do, allow average and below average teams a chance to compete.

It is a fun league and you should approach it as such. If you are truly bowling this as a night out with your wife then just go with the flow and enjoy yourself.

Mark

sevenpin63 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:45:22 PM »

I will just leave it be, but I will have to listen to my other two teammates b!tch all year long on how this is so unfair.

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DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS

nextbowler · « **Reply #10 on:** June 16, 2010, 10:53:02 PM »

You have finished first four times and now you are still averaging 7 pins
over the amount that is being handicapped. If you say that this a "fun"
league, where is your sportsmanship?

LotsaBalls · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2010, 11:45:09 PM »

quote:
quote:
there was a 3 person tourney that ran for 6 weekends recently and it took over 2400 just to cash.

So? With 90% of 240, if you shoot your average you're looking at a 700+ set with handicap. If you average 230 (which I consider to be pretty lofty), you still get 9 pins of handicap and just shooting average you're looking at a 717 set. 2400 is 800 a man, and with that kind of handicap, you're only about 20-25 pins over average for each game.

Perhaps you have mathematical problems similar to Brian. Or this is where you say "Oh, when you break it down like that, it doesn't seem unreasonable at all."

SH

My last years book is 242 so I don't get any handicap. How is it unreasonable that 3 poeple have to average 260+ for 3 games all at the same time? I believe that national record is 2440 or so. First place was 2469 and they only shot 1900 actual. So its exceptable to you that someone would have to break a national record by 30 pins to win a tourney, and come damn close just to cash.

charlest · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2010, 06:47:53 AM »

quote:
I will just leave it be, but I will have to listen to my other two teammates b!tch all year long on how this is so unfair.
--------------------
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS

If you understand what we're saying, then may you should explain to them how it is unfair because you're still getting pins you shouldn't be.

And I agree with rvmark: "It is a fun league and you should approach it as such.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

dogman666 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2010, 07:07:03 AM »

Anytime you are above the hdcp threshold you are a favorite to win.
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Mr. Natural

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2010, 08:38:49 AM »

Good man Rock!!
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J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones

Author Topic: Handicap? (Read 4939 times)

sevenpin63

Handicap?

shelley

Re: Handicap?

BrianCRX90

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LotsaBalls

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shelley

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shelley

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sevenpin63

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charlest

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rvmark

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sevenpin63

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nextbowler

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LotsaBalls

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charlest

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dogman666

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JOE FALCO

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