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Author Topic: handicap league rant...  (Read 6986 times)

RyanRPS

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handicap league rant...
« on: May 28, 2008, 11:32:43 AM »
4 weeks ago we finished our main league, the Night Owls Mens Doubles... a handicap league at our local centre.

We won the league and acompanying KO Cup last year in a great season, and where quietly confident for this year.

Well, at the end of the season, we had the high team average scratch... and finshed 5th!! sickened!

Into the KnockOut and we scraped through the group stages into the Quarter finals, and on a piss poor condition we got beaten by straightbowling fluffers in a luck contest to go out... not impressed!

Any time we complain about handicaps, we get the same answer... "its a handicap league".. which would be a valid answer of there was a scratch alternative... but there isnt

really makes you wonder why you bother!

Ah well... on to the world cup qualifier... at least thats scratch and played on some oil!

Ryan
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rvmark

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2008, 09:28:19 AM »
I know how it feels, you lost to a team that you would normally beat, it happens.  Your options sound limited: you will either continue to bowl in your handicap league, try to get a scratch league(does not sound likely), find another center (do not know if this is an option) or quit bowling (this does not sound like the best option to me).  Best advice would be to just enjoy bowling.
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RyanRPS

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2008, 10:25:39 AM »
I understand all the other sides of the arguement put across, and agree with some of them, however... in this particular league we lost maybe, at most, 5-10 individual games on scratch... thats it.  Out of some 90 games that is.  Its sickening to be winning virtually every game scratch, and loosing the points!

I still dont agree about it being as easy/easier for a high average player to play above his average... higher averaging players, in my opinion, are much more consistant, and are less likely to have very high or very low games on a regular basis, while a 160 average player may shoot one 180-190+ game a week, which would require a 210 player to shoot around 230-240 to match them.

I know most of my complaints seem like whining lol but imagin how annoying it is consistantly outbowling and outscoring your aponents, and them walking off with the points

Ryan
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dicnic

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2008, 10:35:45 AM »
This argument or complaint or whatever has been going on for as long as there has been bowling! No use complaining. Bowling is supposed to be enjoyable, challenging  and so forth. Many of the social league bowlers do not give a RA how well they do, it is just a game to them.

By the way, in my senior league (which is 100% of the difference in the team average) the winning team this past season included a blind guy and a guy with COPD so bad he used an oxygen tank between frames!

Go figure!!
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<font color=red><h4>Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night. </h4></font id=red>

eglleftcoast

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2008, 10:36:22 AM »
Ryan, that's why they call it an average.  If that 160 bowler shoots a 180 or 190, then it also means that they will shoot a 130 or 140. If there was no handicap how many bowlers do we think would remain in the league?  My guess would be only a handful as they too want an opportunity to win...
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trash heap

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2008, 11:56:52 AM »
quote:
in this particular league we lost maybe, at most, 5-10 individual games on scratch


That's your problem. Your looking at scratch scores in a handicap league. You are only seeing this issue from your side. My team is better than every team here scratch...we deserve to win! Scratch doesn't mean #%^& in a handicap league.
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trash heap

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2008, 12:12:31 PM »
quote:
On the opposite end of the "I get beat by handicap even though we have the high team avg in the league" spectrum, I bowled in a league on friday nights this year where the handicap was 80% of 200. Handicap was given to each individual based on their avg. My team had avgs of 207, 173, 221, 225, and 227. We did the 4 point system a night with 35 weeks, and out of 140 total points we lost...... 25 all season.



This kind of thing should not be allowed to happen in a handicap league. You could have an off night and probably still won games.

Your team must of really sucked when you lost points!

I really think league rules need to be adjusted immediately so this thing doesn't happen.
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BrianCRX90

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2008, 07:38:22 PM »
sigh...people like "Shelly" seriously don't "get it" about handicap leagues and the problems they present. I have respect for her om this board but I have heard this person defend "math" against "logic". It's like talking to a liberal democrat about the value of capitalism.

The problem with handicap leagues is there is no cap on lower averages. There is no reason why anyone under 150 should get more pins. If you don't like it, practice and join us when your ready.
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shelley

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2008, 08:48:40 PM »
quote:
sigh...people like "Shelly" seriously don't "get it" about handicap leagues and the problems they present. I have respect for her om this board but I have heard this person defend "math" against "logic".


Math vs. logic.  Yeah, that's a toughie.  I'm not convinced they're all that different, but maybe that's because I have a degree in math.

As for "Shelly", it's not a nickname, it's my actual name.  And there are two "e"s.  Maybe you're thinking of someone else.  A girl, perhaps.

SH
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rvmark

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2008, 10:11:46 PM »
Math or logic aside if it is a real problem to bowl in a handicap league then don't.
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JessN16

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2008, 10:49:44 PM »
quote:
If league rules say you can then yeah, although most leagues around here limit subs to being at or under the bowler they are subbing for. A 200 could not sub for a 105, but a 105 could sub for a 200, and your teams handicap should not change.

Edited on 5/30/2008 6:17 AM


In a time when leagues are trying to fill their teams and invite new bowlers to bowl (or current bowlers to pick up an extra league) there's no reason to put rules in place to limit participation even further.

There are two issues here:

* Sandbagging: It's been around since the beginning of the sport. You're not going to stop it. If it bothers you that much, don't bowl handicap leagues or tournaments. Start up a scratch league (although if you have a cap, you might encourage it again).

* Beginners getting better: It happens. I'm sure the guys who had to suffer through me shooting my 595 scratch off a 155 average in the Alabama state tournament back in 95 or so still think I'm a bagger, when in fact I was just in my fourth year of bowling and becoming competent. These are the people we need to keep in the sport. We can't get mad at them for getting better.

Max handicap limits are an idea but I've seen them implemented incorrectly before (like, a 60-stick limit on a 12-team league made up of six teams of total greenhorns) and new bowlers end up getting chased off.

Again, scratch leagues are your "fix" to this situation, followed closely by a set of league officers who have the sacks necessary to confront baggers. Complaining about people who just get better over the course of the year is pure jealousy. That's really all the scenarios right there.

Jess
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JOE FALCO

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Re: handicap league rant...
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2008, 11:28:27 AM »
Jess .. don't disagree with your comments .. but .. honestly in a ten team league with 40 bowlers .. how many BEGINNERS are there?Is there enough that we should have people complaining about it?

There are some people that IF THEY DON'T WIN there's a reason to find something wrong someplace! YOU GOT BEAT .. that's all there is to it!
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