Author Topic: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen (Read 18367 times)

Nicanor · « **on:** March 13, 2009, 12:55:52 AM »

the break or cost savings that Brunswick has seen with its move to Mexico. In mexico you can have labor alone that is one quarter the labor rate herein the US and also all the laws and rules with regards to safety and enviornment is much less restrictive saving a lot of money.

Has any of that savings been passed on to us the consumer?

I don't think so.

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Nicanor · « **Reply #46 on:** March 16, 2009, 05:35:18 PM »

CRD,

I don't disagree, but give me your opinion on my question. If a company in the US up and leaves and goes to another country, in this case Mexico, for financial reasons, labor, enviornment, taxes and more, but does not pass on any savings to the US consumer,, wouldn't that kinda make you not want to buy their product? Its not a company that originated in a country making clothes or whatever.

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Nicanor · « **Reply #47 on:** March 16, 2009, 09:32:26 PM »

Yes, I own my own company and if I used the illegal immagrants at Home Depot and continued to charge $80 for labor, I'd make a killing. No taxes, insurance, no unemployment tax nothing. Pick them up, 8 1/2 hours later drop them off at the trolley.

BUT I DON'T.

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Steven · « **Reply #48 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:40:31 AM »

quote:
BUT I DON'T

Nicanor, I'm glad you don't. Not giving in is called integrity and being socially responsible. Our country would be a much better place if some companies showed more discipline and operational ethics.

I think what bothers many bowlers is why Brunswick had to move manufacturing outside the US. There are many ball manufacturers who operate efficiently and are able to make adequate profits manufacturing exclusively in the US. Why not Brunswick? No answer that comes to mind is flattering towards Brunswick Bowling operations.

Contrary to analogies presented, there are many consumer products where I have no choice but to buy foreign. If you're still watching an American manufactured TV, you're older than dirt and have no eye sight left. But when it comes to bowling equipment, I do have a choice, and it's going to be American made. Especially since from a quality and price perspective, you can do better domestically.

Nicanor · « **Reply #49 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:36:28 PM »

Steven,

Thank you for the post. The orginal post was not about buying US made products only. I know today that would be nearly impossible. It was about a company that left the US because it was so much cheaper to make thier product in Mexico costing the US jobs and money and the cost of the product is still the same to US citizens. Thats what bothers me.

When a major toy company moved to Mexico to make their toys, we saw almost an immediate lowering of the cost of their toys.

If it were reasonable, people should buy UC made products or products that has some interest in the product even if its just assembly like some cars or car parts. But that just my opinion.

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #50 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:50:03 PM »

quote:
Yes, I own my own company and if I used the illegal immagrants at Home Depot and continued to charge $80 for labor, I'd make a killing. No taxes, insurance, no unemployment tax nothing. Pick them up, 8 1/2 hours later drop them off at the trolley.

BUT I DON'T.

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

How in the world is that relevant to this discussion? You're talking about something illegal, as opposed to something perfectly legal like Brunswick has done.

If I can operate cheaper out of Mexico than I can out of the US, why in the world wouldn't I want to make more profit by operating in the cheaper place? Sure it sucks for the guys in the USA who won't get to work for me, but how does that matter one iota to me? I'm the business owner, not the guy out on the street. It's not my responsibility to provide you with a job. It's my responsibilty to run my own company. If you don't want me moving my factory to Mexico, find a way for me to operate cheaper in America, or make it more expensive to operate out of the country. Either or. In that case, I have a legitimate reason to stay in the USA. Otherwise, I'm shooting myself in the foot by voluntarily lowering my profits just to stay in America.

Nicanor · « **Reply #51 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:03:13 PM »

Sorry Dan, but you are lost and must be like one of those Lane 1 junkies but just trying to defend Brunswick. I was asked if I run my own business and I said yes. that answers the person's question. In my business i find that many illegal immagrants under cuts my bid. That bothers me, but thats ok. I don't use illegal immagrants but rather use retired professionals that can do the work on a part time base.

Thinking like you do Dan, many if not all our companies especially the major car companies, really and major company in the US, should move their companies to Mexico. I say Mexico not to be racial, but because we share a border and it is cheaper for transportation then overseas like China. So it would be ok if all these companies moved to Mexico and still charge us the same price for all these products and not only cars, but many businesses. Not only that, but for the entire work force. Jobs that can't be sent to Mexico, we can bring them here. We can build a city in Mexico of legal dual citizenship Mexicans and bus them to southern CA and anywhere sharing a border and they can take our US dollars back to Mexico, be legal and still only pay about 1/4 to 1/2 of the labor costs, no union and probably no medical costs or much cheaper in Mexico..

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Edited on 3/17/2009 1:04 PM

Edited on 3/17/2009 1:05 PM

Nicanor · « **Reply #52 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:47:15 PM »

Our discount should be noticeable. Brunswick could have moved to a different state in the US rather then going to Mexico. I understand what the unions have done to our economy, but not all states are as heavily as states like NJ, NY and MI.

I keep on saying this post was not about "buy only US made products". I have said i understand that we almost have to buy items from the items from outside the US because that is life as we now know it.

But you guys defending Brunswick have not answered some of my questions as stated in my post just above this.

How would we feel if all of our major and medium companies moved to Mexico with their operations just across the border?

How would we feel if they built major neighborhoods just on the other side of our border in Mexico and got many of the dual citizenship workers or even those with just a work visa and bused them across the border to work in the fields that can not be moved to Mexico, like construction, all across the US/Mexico border taking away thousands of jobs that were once filled by US citizens just becaise its all about the mighty dollar?

Also, what about all the jobs lost to illegal immagrants hanging out like places like Home Depot getting work, not paying taxes etc. I am not anti hispanic legal immagrants, but to have illegal immmagrants take jobs away from legal immagrants and the US citizens just frustrates me.

Please, answer those questions.

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Edited on 3/17/2009 7:11 PM

Steven · « **Reply #53 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:12:41 PM »

quote:
Please, answer those questions

Good luck on that request.

Nick, another thing that's lost on the 'hafta nafta' crowd are the hidden costs of shipping jobs to other countries. Those Brunswick workers become unemployed workers. Instead of having the opportunity to contribute to society, they become wards of society. They collect unemployment, then sometimes welfare and food stamps down the line. Now that's real money out of each of our pockets because Brunswick can't compete in America with the other successful ball manufacturers. Brunswick might not care, but I certainly do.

It's not realistic to expect Brunswick to lower prices because they now have lower cost labor. That's not the issue. I just wonder what's so fundamentally wrong with Brunswick that they can't cut in the country that provided for their beginnings.

Zef Olantar · « **Reply #54 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:31:42 PM »

quote:
CRD,

I don't disagree, but give me your opinion on my question. If a company in the US up and leaves and goes to another country, in this case Mexico, for financial reasons, labor, enviornment, taxes and more, but does not pass on any savings to the US consumer,, wouldn't that kinda make you not want to buy their product? Its not a company that originated in a country making clothes or whatever.

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Absolutely, Nicanor!

I used to support Big B until they moved their production to Mexico! They made the move just to be more profitable, not to pass on the savings to the customer.

As a Canadian, I always supported USA made balls and always will. Also, as a Pro Shop owner / operator, I saw nothing but crap coming out of the Mexican Brunswick plant when they first started up. Sure...growing pains, but it was hard to return balls to Brunswick that had "slimy" coverstocks and balls with CG's that were mis-marked by over 3"....yes, that's right! I saw it first hand. You Big B supporters that like your Brunswick balls hand-polished by Julio Sanchez with his own fine Mexican spit......you carry on !!!!

I'll keep on supporting USA made products!

Thank you very much !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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"You may not like it now........but you'll LEARN to like it!"

Canadian SAWhead

Easy10pins · « **Reply #55 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:39:58 PM »

quote:

Absolutely, Nicanor!

I used to support Big B until they moved their production to Mexico! They made the move just to be more profitable, not to pass on the savings to the customer.

Brunswick's job is to turn a profit. That is their priority. To make $$$. Any large or small business owner will tell you the same thing. If they say different, they are lying. My priority in opening my own business was to make money. Indirectly, in my pricing I did save my clients money but that was a result of my market analysis in that I could offer the same service for less $$$.

Brunswick wants happy customers. For every bowler claiming they won't buy BB because they moved to Mexico, there are 10 other satisfied customers who don't care where the balls are made. You can't satisfy everyone.
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The bowler formerly known as BrunsRod.
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF

102101 · « **Reply #56 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:53:26 PM »

quote:
Dan, you understand perfectly.

Nicanor, you obviously don't know the business environment here in MI. The Single Business Tax deters companies from locating here and encourages them to move out of Michigan. It is a union state, thanks to the Big Three. I wonder if the retirees are glad Brunswick moved? Probably are due to the fact that Brunswick can be profitable which means they keep there pensions, unlike many other retirees in this state. Brunswick had a great run in Muskegon but guess what? Muskegon is a ghost town and Brunswick was one of the last holdouts. Bringing up ball companies that MERGED, operate in "right to work" states with no unions, have much lower labor costs, don't have the archaic tax system like Michigan doesn't hold water in my opinion. Bringing up companies like Lane Masters, Lane #1, and MoRich that don't even have their own plants is even less relevant. You never answered MY question. How much of a discount are you entitled to because Brunswick moved out of the states? By the way, did you know Caterpillar imports all of their crankshaft forgings for their diesel engines? They really don't come any more American than Cat. Are you going to stop buying goods that were shipped by trucks powered by Cat? I can't relate to your concern on this. Perhaps you would like protection laws like Canada has? There laws are so strict that a music CD must have 90% of it's content recorded in Canada to be sold there! I get asked at Customs when I go to Canadian engine manufacturers why my job can't be performed by Canadians. What does that or Brunswick's move have anything to do with capitalism and free enterprise? I'd like to hear your answer along with how much of a discount you feel you're entitled to? Thanks in advance.

Edited on 3/17/2009 5:46 PM

Edited on 3/17/2009 5:47 PM

Are you saying Brunswick had no say so, that is was all the unions fault? Brunswick was as much at fault even more so do to the fact that they were at the negotiating table with the union and agreed to the contract that they negotiated with the union. I am not a union supporter in any way shape or form but saying Brunswick had no choice or responsibility is ridiculous.
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102101? Hmmmm

www.blackhawklanes.com

Nicanor · « **Reply #57 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:03:52 PM »

Brunswick fans, its a matter of time. If the quality doesn't improve or the cost of their product doesn't lower, they will be history. They made bad business decisions in the US, thats why they're in Mexico or thats what you say.

I'm not a politican but a realist. So many jobs have been lost in the US that its staggering, record breaking. If more and more companies decide to leave the US with no reprecussions (sp?) then it will continue to get worse. More and more people will be on a program wether or not unempoyment, welfare or whatever. Meanwhile these companies are taking our jobs and tax dollars to another country.

The country is already broke financially. So once unempoyment runs out then what. These people are going to feed their families. where is that money going to come from? The crime rate is going to go through the roof and with no prison system able to hold or fund them.

Am I wrong?

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Nicanor · « **Reply #58 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:25:20 AM »

I did not side step any answers I believe.

I drive a 69 Corvette, my wife drives a 2003 Corvette, our family car is a 2006 Cadilac SRX my work trucks are a 1996 Ford Expolrer and a 1999 Ford Expedition. I have a 2003 Harley road King that is a show bike and has been in magazines and on TV. I have a 2004 Road king that I use for riding and my wife has a 2004 Harley Screaming Eagle Deuce and my son has a 1995 Mustang convertable.

I have a handiman business where we do kitchen and bath remodels, decks, balconies and a lot of other handiman business. My electrican is also my assistant. When he works as an electrican I give him $300 a day and thats what I charge the customer. When he works as my asistant but not as an electrican I pay him $120 a day and I only usually work 6 hours a day. My electrican is a retired electrican and just likes to do part time work.

I have retired from the Navy after 31 years (five years ago) and I use the handiman business to help build my motorcycles and rebuild my 69 Corvette.

Did I miss something?

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Edited on 3/18/2009 0:26 AM

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 18, 2009, 01:48:57 AM »

I liked Brunswick before they moved and wished they hadn't but I'm still buying the equipment. Plus I see more Brunswick Blems which used to never exist.

It's all about price and profit. There isn't much profit in bowling balls. Like all other sales it is in the accessories.

Just because it was made here by someone making a lot more money don't mean better quality. Quality control means a better quality product.

Plus how many American companies are out there making electronics?

(TVs, dvd players, alarm clocks, video games ect)

None. Why?

Because it would cost too much and the business making them would go under like our automobile industry, only quicker.

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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "

Edited on 3/18/2009 8:29 AM

renoatpikeville · « **Reply #60 on:** March 18, 2009, 01:49:32 AM »

quote:
I did not side step any answers I believe.

I drive a 69 Corvette, my wife drives a 2003 Corvette, our family car is a 2006 Cadilac SRX my work trucks are a 1996 Ford Expolrer and a 1999 Ford Expedition. I have a 2003 Harley road King that is a show bike and has been in magazines and on TV. I have a 2004 Road king that I use for riding and my wife has a 2004 Harley Screaming Eagle Deuce and my son has a 1995 Mustang convertable.

I have a handiman business where we do kitchen and bath remodels, decks, balconies and a lot of other handiman business. My electrican is also my assistant. When he works as an electrican I give him $300 a day and thats what I charge the customer. When he works as my asistant but not as an electrican I pay him $120 a day and I only usually work 6 hours a day. My electrican is a retired electrican and just likes to do part time work.

I have retired from the Navy after 31 years (five years ago) and I use the handiman business to help build my motorcycles and rebuild my 69 Corvette.

Did I miss something?

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Edited on 3/18/2009 0:26 AM

I hope you issued him a 1099 or included him in your payroll and pay SS, Medicare and report Federal Withholding.

Along with any business taxes, sales and use tax, so on...permits with the state, county and city if applicable.

Author Topic: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen (Read 18367 times)

Nicanor

Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen

Nicanor

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Nicanor

Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen

Steven

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Nicanor

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Dan Belcher

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Nicanor

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Nicanor

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Steven

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Zef Olantar

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Easy10pins

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102101

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Nicanor

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Nicanor

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kidlost2000

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renoatpikeville

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