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Author Topic: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen  (Read 17507 times)

Nicanor

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Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« on: March 13, 2009, 12:55:52 AM »
the break or cost savings that Brunswick has seen with its move to Mexico.  In mexico you can have labor alone that is one quarter the labor rate herein the US and also all the laws and rules with regards to safety and enviornment is much less restrictive saving a lot of money.

Has any of that savings been passed on to us the consumer?

I don't think so.


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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

 

BeansProShop

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2009, 08:23:37 AM »
quote:
I dunno, I just got the Max Zone drilled for $99.95 from my pro shop. Well under the 175+ that other balls cost. Don't look at the company, look at the pro shops!


Impossible to buy this ball and sell it for $99.95 with out losing money. They cost more than that wholesale!!!! You were sold a blem dude or your shop needs to take a business course.....

Look at the manufacturer...Not the honest Pro Shops...

Beans
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102101

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2009, 09:29:35 AM »
quote:
102101,
Exactly where did I say the unions were at fault.  One of the factors to be sure, but the anti-business climate and legislature in Michigan is the primary cause.

Nicanor,
You sure did side-step those questions about your business, car, pay rate of your workers, etc.  Than you give a dire warning to Brunswick fans about quality of balls.  Give me a break!  Tells me all I need to know. Took a while to uncover your hidden agenda but I knew we'd get to it sooner or later.

Stevie,
I told you before, I ain't biting on anything you say to try to spur another argument.



Just wondered because of the statement you made about Brunswick retirees and their pensions, and the big three comment. So your thoughts Brunswick had no responsibility on the reasons they had to move?
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102101? Hmmmm

www.blackhawklanes.com

Nicanor

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2009, 09:40:07 AM »
Most my business is through a real estate person who always sends me a 1099.  I pay the taxes regarless because the income is reported.  

I see those who want to respond for the most part doesn't want to respond to the big questions.  If Brunswick followed Motel (was that the major tou company they went to Mexico, and we continued to lose more and more companies to Mexico, what would happen to the US?  What would happen if all the car manufactuerer companies folded in the US and moved thier plants to Mexico?


I realize that through the years we have lost so much of our electronic industry.  If we keep this up we won't have much of an employment base and what will will have left is manual labor done by illegal immagrants and we will be trying to collect welfare.

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Edited on 3/18/2009 10:03 AM
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Zef Olantar

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2009, 09:42:45 AM »
quote:
quote:

Absolutely, Nicanor!

I used to support Big B until they moved their production to Mexico!  They made the move just to be more profitable, not to pass on the savings to the customer.



Brunswick's job is to turn a profit.  That is their priority.  To make $$$.  Any large or small business owner will tell you the same thing.  If they say different, they are lying.  My priority in opening my own business was to make money.  Indirectly, in my pricing I did save my clients money but that was a result of my market analysis in that I could offer the same service for less $$$.

Brunswick wants happy customers.  For every bowler claiming they won't buy BB because they moved to Mexico, there are 10 other satisfied customers who don't care where the balls are made.  You can't satisfy everyone.
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The bowler formerly known as BrunsRod.
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You keep on believe that!  As long as Brunswick is around they will always have their supporters...absolutely!  Like I said, I see things first hand where most don't.....I've been in the pro shop business for a long time!  Trust me.....Brunswick is going by the wayside compared to the others.  I use many brands, although most of my newer stuff is Lane #1, but I can tell you without a doubt that the dominant brand out there is Storm / Roto-Grip !!  And that will continue....not only because are they putting out a great product, but because their exposure is massive on the PBA Tour.

The fact is this......Brunswick has made some bad business decisions in the past which forced them to lower the cost of manufacturing to be more competitive.  But with the quality of their product NOT being what it was, they are on a slow train heading to extinction....IMO!

Hell, I still have some old USA made Brunswick balls that I've thrown numerous 300 games with....and I'll never part with them because they still work and they're truly awesome balls!
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Canadian SAWhead
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2009, 09:47:11 AM »
quote:
Sorry Dan, but you are lost and must be like one of those Lane 1 junkies but just trying to defend Brunswick.
Hardly.  I actually hate Brunswick equipment.  The last Brunswick ball I threw was an Ambush that left more flat 10s than anything I've ever thrown.

I'm just looking at the situation from the point of view of business, not the point of view of being pro-American.  It is in Brunswick's best interest to have the lowest production costs possible, and to sell the balls for as much profit as possible.  Why should they lower the selling price if it results in making less overall profit?

And furthermore, why should they care about keeping jobs in America?  That's not their concern.  Their concern is to sustain as much profit as possible for as long a time as possible.  They felt moving to Mexico was the best way to do this.  If ANY company feels this way and can make the numbers work, it's in that company's best interest to move, isn't it?  Who cares about giving jobs to the American public and so forth?  I'm not going to start a company just to be nice enough to create jobs for Americans.  I'm going to start a company to make money, period.

And I still am mystified by your constant references to hiring illegal immigrants to work for your company in the USA.  How is that related to this issue?  Hiring illegal immigrants is illegal.  Moving your business to Mexico and having Mexican nationals work there is legal.  That is a HUGE difference from what the rest of us are talking about!

Nicanor

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2009, 10:02:36 AM »
Dan,  Its about the future of the US. Soon we will become a welfare country.  Just look at the last year and where our US dollar has fallen to.  Pretty soon the Peso will be worth more money then the US dollar and we will be trying to get across the border to get work in Mexico.  With your point of view, thats ok because its in the best interest of the company. Soon we'll be the illegals.




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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Dan Belcher

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2009, 10:05:46 AM »
The problem is the viewpoint you have is way too idealistic and not at all realistic.  As a business owner, I'm thinking about the best interests of my company.  If the USA needs to stop companies from moving out of the country, the US government need to find incentives for keeping your business here.  (Higher import taxes, significant tax breaks for operating in the USA, etc.)  But that's NOT Brunswick's concern at all!  Brunswick should be worried about themselves, not the greater good of the country.  If they can operate cheaper in Mexico under the current laws, good for them.

Nicanor

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #68 on: March 18, 2009, 11:30:18 AM »
Well I guess I'm not being realistic.  The government isn't giving the big three millions if not billions to stay afloat and the government isn't giving AIG billions to stay afloat.  The government isn't giving billions to states and for one reason to help out with major unemployment rates.  There's a lot more, but those are pretty major.  I guess thats not realistic.  I guess its not realistic to talk about the record unemployment rates.


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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Verbs

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2009, 11:44:31 AM »
All,

Back to the topic heading.

Let me start by asking a couple of questions.

Since all of the automotive companies have moved a portion of their manufacturing outside of the U.S., has the price of a car went down?

Since Dexter moved all over their shoe making to Asia, has the price for a pair of high performance shoes decreased?

Companies do not move some or all of their manufacturing outside of the U.S. to lower the price to consumers. They do it to show/increase their profits.

Being that I was employed by Brunswick during the transition, I have a bit more insight o this than most of you.

Brunswick Consumer Products did not move production to Mexico to INCREASE profits. They moved manufacturing to Mexico to try and SHOW a profit. From 2003-2006, Brunswick was the most popular high performance ball line in the world. During that time, Brunswick Consumer Products was, at best, a break even part of the Brunswick Corporation. We were operating with a skeleton staff of marketing and sales. So what other area can you cut costs in? Manufacturing.

The decision to move manufacturing to Mexico did not come without some very heated debate between Corporate and Consumer Products management.

At the time, moving production to Mexico was the best solution to try and show a profit. Which is what you get into and stay in business for. Once you do not show a profit for a period of time, you go out of business. Which was/is within the realm of possibility.

Just remember to ask yourself this question when some of you bash Brunswick.

Your American brand (not made, BRAND) of car. Why did you buy it? To support an American company.

Brunswick is STILL an American based company. Headquartered in Lake Forest, Ill. With the bowling division located in Muskegon, MI.

The coverstocks are still provided by American companies (Ashland for Polyester & Bayer for Urethane). The equipment is engineered & tested in Muskegon.

And as many of you know, if anyone has a beef with Brunswick, it would be me. I choose to take the high road because of the friends (Americans) I have left there that I want to succeed.

So by choosing not to support Brunswick because of the moving manufacturing to Mexico, you could be costing even more Americans their job.

Sorry for the rant.

Verbs

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Larry Verble

Nicanor

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2009, 12:08:14 PM »
And there was no place in the US that had a much less expensive place to have a manufacturing plant, like a little know city in Arkansas.  They "had" to move out of country?  They wer the number one ball and couldn't make it work here in the US but ebonite and Storm are still going strong and coming out with new coverstocks and weight blocks not just mixing old coverstocks with old weight blocks.  not that Storm or ebonite doesn't do it, but it seems as though Brunswick has almost closed down their R & D department.




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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

JustRico

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2009, 12:19:40 PM »
Please remember something, just because the other manufacturers are still based in the US does not mean they are prospering. Ebonite had a 20% reduction in work force towards the end of last year and they are over 50% of the market. If you actually knew the inner workings, you would know that NO ball manufacturer is 'prosperous', including Storm. Manufacturers are always trying to find ways to cut costs.
Brunswick has not done away with there R and D dept. They have 2 of the smartest/sharpest guys in the industry. Every ball company goes through the ups and downs, it is a very cyclical business. 3 years ago Brunswick had the best line up and a lot of the independants on tour were throwing Brunswick balls. Now it's Storms turn. How many Ebonite brand balls do you see on the shows? And they have over half of the market.
It did suck when Brunswick made the decision to move the ball plant. As Verbs mentioned, I was there as well during this transition and trust me, it was not an easy decision. But they were going to move the plant and is was not like we had input in where it was going. But if they did not make the move, another couple of hundred Americans would have been out of work. They also did not anticipate the move lingering this long, in the buyers eyes.
Every company rebounds. As I was once told, you always want to bowl well between the slumps. Ball companies just try and survive through the slumps, until their next great ball comes along.
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Formerly BrunsRico
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Nicanor

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2009, 12:57:26 PM »
It still doesn't answer the question, "why Mexico" and not a small town that could use a industry like a bowling ball manufactuer coming to their town.  they probably would have recieved a lot of incentives.




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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Edited on 3/18/2009 1:08 PM
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Steven

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2009, 12:57:29 PM »
Rico: Thanks for the observations. You were there, and you've experienced the pain first hand. Going through downsizing and reorganizations is an incredibly painful experience.

You're current in that no ball company is likely to be 'prosperous' right now. In general, few major companies of any type are experiencing boom times. Still, even with cuts, Storm and Ebonite appear to be making a manufacturing go of it in the USA. I've always wondered how Brunswick, especially with their period of popularity, could experience problems to the degree that they were forced to move manufacturing out of the country. It does suggest that even with a high demand product, there are severe management issues within the company. When that's the case, even short term 'outsourcing' moves like offshoring manufacturing just minimally stop the bleeding.

Professionally, I've been on all sides of the outsourcing spectrum I've worked for a major IT outsourcer, and I've managed major outsourcing contracts from the customer side. The bottom line is that outsourcing is corporate 'fools gold' for squeezing profits and remaining viable. I'm luck enough to work for a company where upper management understands this, and works toward long term strategies that maximize the use of domestic resources.

There are in fact major hidden social costs associated with corporations moving operations to foreign countries. I don't want to support any company that, if managed properly, could be profitable manufacturing domestically.

JustRico

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2009, 01:08:43 PM »
To comment on the last 2 posts...

The reason for Mexico, the boat division (BayLiner) had already in place a manufacturing plant in the area that the ball manufacturing plant is and was doing well. Granted this was 2-3 years ago, when the boat division was prospering and before Katrina & the current down turn in the economy.

Steven, you are correct in much of what you posted. Time will tell if it is merely slowing the bleeding.
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Formerly BrunsRico
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
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OddBalls

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Re: Have the Brunswick bowling ball buyers seen
« Reply #75 on: March 18, 2009, 01:11:38 PM »
As I recall, Brunswick also spent a lot of money with state of the art casting machines as well for their equipment (how effective it is, that's another topic).

Combine the upgrade in the equipment, the cost of the land/labor in Mexico, I'd say the decision was based on the company investing in it's future as a leader in the market.

JMHO...
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Inverted 1 and Dead Flush are my Evil Twins...

Edited on 3/18/2009 1:12 PM