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Author Topic: Help needed  (Read 4611 times)

realoldman

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Help needed
« on: June 25, 2004, 08:53:09 AM »
I have a quick question for someone in the know.
I have been bowling in a center that switched to synthetic lanes 6 weeks before the end of this past season. Well after the change over I am struggling. I joined a summer league because I needed the practice to figure out what is wrong.
Equipment used has been: Reaction Arc and a Ti Messenger Pearl

Reaction Arc – This ball was good the first year I had it, and then it broke down so fast. I had it resurfaced 2 times last season and it still has no back end. It still hooks in an Arc, but no finish. I had the pro take the positive weight (3/4) out of the ball and now it is at 0. It rolls like my pearl but still no back end.

Ti Messenger Pearl – I bought this at the beginning of the last season for light to medium oil and it is a good solid all around ball to use. It has 3/4 positive weight.

Here is my question, (sorry I am long winded)
I just ordered a new Ball, it is a Big Block Diesel. I need to know if I should have it drilled with Positive, Negative or Zero weight?

With the Reaction Arc - I normally stand, left foot between 35 and 40, walk straight and swing out to 10-15.
With the Ti Messenger Pearl - I normally stand, left foot between 30 and 35, and walk towards 25 and roll down the 10 straight and flip in to the heads at the end.
The lane conditions are 10 to 10, heavier towards the middle, but not HEAVY OIL, I would say it is Medium oil.
I don’t throw a Hard Fast ball
I don’t throw a ball with a lot of Revs
I do come out of the ball from underneath, if you understand what I mean, not the palm of the hand facing the pins on my lane, but facing the pins on the lane to my left.  

My Average was 195 this past season and 208 in the summer league (I am not leaving as many 10 pins using the pearl, now I am leaving more of the 8 or 9 pin and the occasional 10 pin.

Any help will be appreciated.
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Urethane Game

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2004, 12:10:29 AM »
The weights you are referring to are static weights and are secondary in determining ball motion using modern bowling balls.  The distance the pin and cg are from your positive axis point along with the surface of the ball determine its motion.  Static weights are used to fine tune the ball reaction created by the more dynamic factors.

If your pro shop operator is still living in the 70's perhaps you should find another ball driller.


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got revs?
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Kyanite

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2004, 12:14:10 AM »
I'm curious...., did they switch to AMF or Brunswick synthetics....?  Do you know if they strip the backends?  Are the heads synthetic as well?

It sounds like it could be a couple of things.  First off before anyone answers we need some info on the drill patterns on both balls.  
Remember..., the most important factor of ball reaction is matching the coverstock to the lane.  

Let me ask you..., do you have a simliar lack of backend problem with the Ti Messenger?


Also..., I never had good luck with Columbia Coverstocks.....  They seem to die the earliest.  Additionally the Reaction ARC is suppose to do just that, ARC.  Not really suppose to have a big backend.
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Gottem' Drippin Like Water
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realoldman

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2004, 12:38:56 AM »
Urethane Game - "If your pro shop operator is still living in the 70's perhaps you should find another ball driller" I was afraid you someone was going to say that.

Kyanite - you said
I'm curious...., did they switch to AMF or Brunswick synthetics....?
Brunswick

Do you know if they strip the backends?
They left the backends and striped to the foul line.

Are the heads synthetic as well?
Unsure what you mean???

It sounds like it could be a couple of things. First off before anyone answers we need some info on the drill patterns on both balls.
I can tell you the R-Arc had 3-1/4oz top
1" pin
the Pearl had 4oz top
2" pin
That is the info the boxes had on it.
As far as a drill pattern, I don't know what you need, is it something I could describe by looking at the ball? Will a picture be helpfull?
 
Let me ask you..., do you have a simliar lack of backend problem with the Ti Messenger?
No - the Ti finishes hard.


Edited on 6/26/2004 0:35 AM
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Urethane Game

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2004, 12:58:50 AM »
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Kyanite

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2004, 01:00:26 AM »
PIN in?  that's why that ball is not finishing...  The closer the pin is to the CG the less reaction your gonna get.  

When they resurfaced the lanes did they do the entire lane, teh area infront of the arrows, or just the area behind the arrows?  


If the TI mess. is finishing like its always been, then I believe its the ball with a 1 inch pin thats your problem.  And after over a year of bowling with it the coverstock, which was basicially manufaturing 90% of your ball's total hook, is toast.  Those particle balls from columbia die real fast.  

I hope the ball you ordered has a pin out about 2-3 inches from the CG.


Good Link..... urethane

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Gottem' Drippin Like Water

Edited on 6/26/2004 1:03 AM
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gbushman

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2004, 01:07:34 AM »
You are getting some GOOD help from Urethane Game and Kyanite so I wont INTRUDE much here but can your proshop TELL you the drilling PATTERN of your balls?   A picture will tell SOME information but they are going to need to know your PAP and that might not be possible from a picture.  Drill patterns are BASED on PAP distance from the CG and from the PIN or by using a CLOCK or DEGREE system.

Some links to HELP explain the terms:

http://www.ebonite.com/techcenter/techterms.php

http://www.bowlingfans.com/jeff/ballreactionbasics.html

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/VFlare.Htm

How to FIND your PAP:

http://www.ebonite.com/techcenter/positiveaxispt.php

CLOCK system:

http://www.rollrite.co.uk/secrets.php?id=7

DEGREE system:

http://www.rollrite.co.uk/secrets.php?id=8
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TOO many IDIOTS, so LITTLE time.
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realoldman

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2004, 01:14:55 AM »
quote:
PIN in?  that's why that ball is not finishing...  The closer the pin is to the CG the less reaction your gonna get.  

When they resurfaced the lanes did they do the entire lane, teh area infront of the arrows, or just the area behind the arrows?  


If the TI mess. is finishing like its always been, then I believe its the ball with a 1 inch pin thats your problem.  And after over a year of bowling with it the coverstock, which was basicially manufaturing 90% of your ball's total hook, is toast.  Those particle balls from columbia die real fast.  

I hope the ball you ordered has a pin out about 2-3 inches from the CG.


Good Link..... urethane

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Gottem' Drippin Like Water

Edited on 6/26/2004 1:03 AM


Pin in, I understand that, thank you Urethane Game for the link.

Resurfaced right up to the foul line.
I have had the ARC for about 2-1/2yrs, resurfaced twice. JUNK in my opinion.

I have been on the phone tring to get a hold of the person who ordered the ball to make sure she ordered it correctly.
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channel surfer

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2004, 01:27:56 AM »
First of all, if u want more backend, taking positive out of the ball wont help, hes doing the opposite.

I suggest wet sanding to 1200 or just polish her up.
--------------------
www.csbowling.vze.com

www.bowlersdream.com - save an additional $3 off any $100 order by simply typing in CSB into the coupon code area at checkout.
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realoldman

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2004, 01:28:09 AM »
g_bushman2000 - Looking at the videos, My ten pin leaves are always like the video, 6 pin falling short of the 10.
My Ti seams to roll on a 2 axis roll
My Arc rolls on a 1 axis roll
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realoldman

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2004, 01:31:57 AM »
quote:
First of all, if u want more backend, taking positive out of the ball wont help, hes doing the opposite.

I suggest wet sanding to 1200 or just polish her up.
--------------------
www.csbowling.vze.com

www.bowlersdream.com - save an additional $3 off any $100 order by simply typing in CSB into the coupon code area at checkout.

The reason I had him take the positive out of the ball is because the ball seemed like it was a dead ball with no more life in it. As far as sanding or polishing the ball, It felt like I was doing one or the other every other week for a while.
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channel surfer

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2004, 01:32:46 AM »
So you have already tried polishing?
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www.csbowling.vze.com

www.bowlersdream.com - save an additional $3 off any $100 order by simply typing in CSB into the coupon code area at checkout.
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realoldman

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2004, 01:37:21 AM »
Quote
So you have already tried polishing?
quote]
Yes I had, the Arc would respond somewhat good for about 3,4 or 5 frames then die instantly.

Edited on 6/26/2004 1:33 AM

Edited on 6/26/2004 1:34 AM
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channel surfer

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2004, 01:48:20 AM »
Yea, those reaction balls(espically Roll and Arc)have short life spans. Maybe you should try the hook again.
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www.csbowling.vze.com

www.bowlersdream.com - save an additional $3 off any $100 order by simply typing in CSB into the coupon code area at checkout.
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realoldman

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2004, 01:58:31 AM »
That is why I ordered a new ball, a Big Block Diesel.
I hope this ball helps me a little.
If you ask, why this ball, my answer is, I just picked it because of the description on the hammer website. I had good luck with a Hammer years ago. I then switched to Columbia and since then I have had problems.
I am so frustrated I was ready to grab the BLACK Beauty out of the closet, and give it a wirl.
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