Author Topic: Sand bagging (Read 5116 times)

BigHorhn · « **on:** November 24, 2010, 03:19:17 AM »

Is it sand bagging when everybody is doing it? They say if you can't beat em join em. I think more and more people are joining them. Before I really started to pay attention, I didn't notice the various ways people used to keep there averages down. But the last two years or so I have had the pleasure of having one (a bagger) on my team both Monday and Friday. My Monday league is full of teams that bag that I can do nothing about, but after this season I won't have one on my team. I guess I should have been listening to some of the older bowlers when they said "Your average is getting to high". Oh well, just venting a little. What are your opinions?

mab · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2010, 03:14:59 PM »

Baggers ruin the whole sport if you don't play up to your ability every time why compete. And if your are in my league your a low down dirty thief,cheat and scum bag. We have ways of dealing with this type of snake in my area.

ccrider · « **Reply #17 on:** November 26, 2010, 09:30:06 PM »

The fact that someone scores significantly above their average does not prove that the person is bagging.

Practice makes such a big difference and how well one scores. My average this year is 20 pins below my book average from last year because I have only been able to bowl once a week. Still, under pressure, on a good night, I could very easily shoot 20 over my book average. I have done this a time or two this season. Not bagging, just the way things work out.

I still believe that the cream generally rises to the top in the end.
--------------------
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.

Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.

Centers · « **Reply #18 on:** November 27, 2010, 09:39:52 PM »

Adopt a rule that if a bowler is substantially lower than their book, then the lowest they can use is 15 pins below, or find the handicap max they are allowed to use. They have a 3 week max for that handicap so if the bowler was injured or something legit, then they should be back to par.

vilecanards · « **Reply #19 on:** November 27, 2010, 10:28:53 PM »

One tourney that I bowled this season, the Southeastern Bowling Association Annual, used your highest average as of April 1st this year instead of January 1st this year, if you were 10 pins higher than last year. This would seem to help in catching baggers, as they would presumably be through with throwing off so late in the season.
--------------------
Life is not a matter of holding a good hand, but of playing a bad hand well. (R. L. Stevenson)

txbowler · « **Reply #20 on:** November 28, 2010, 12:33:15 AM »

Here is an example of perfectly legal sandbagging. I know the bowler who did this a many years ago.

During league through out the year, drink alot while bowling. Fairly intoxicated by middle of 2nd game. Can't make spares. Doesn't strike nearly as often.

Come tournament time...bowls sober. And cleans up.

The bowler is trying his best every ball, but the alcohol is lowering his league average.

Also, the simple fact is the difference between a 195 and a 215 average bowler is simply making or missing the two 10 pins you leave each game, and at that level of a bowler, you can make it look good and no one can prove you are bagging.

The baggers know this and take advantage of the rules. That is why the tournament average rule that USBC is trying to pass will help catch these people. Yes a couple honest bowlers who have a hot streak will get caught in that net too and that is sad. But it is the best solution that I have seen offered to date IMO.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 28, 2010, 04:58:07 AM »

How about facing a PBA regional card member with a ball contract averaging 208 to 210 while a card holder. Now that they are not a member, they are bowling off of 180. This person has many honor scores. The majority are at PBA regionals not local houses.

I never noticed the 210 average while a PBA member till later when I checked USBC.
--------------------
Be good, or be good at it.

CPA · « **Reply #22 on:** November 28, 2010, 11:01:20 AM »

There is no honor in sandbagging.
--------------------
USBC Silver Level Coach

txbowler · « **Reply #23 on:** November 28, 2010, 12:38:15 PM »

CPA...there is rarely honor in anything involving money!

98custom · « **Reply #24 on:** November 29, 2010, 08:32:10 AM »

quote:
Adopt a rule that if a bowler is substantially lower than their book, then the lowest they can use is 15 pins below, or find the handicap max they are allowed to use. They have a 3 week max for that handicap so if the bowler was injured or something legit, then they should be back to par.

Centers,

I created a league like this about 5 years back. It took the highest average the past 5 years, and for the purpose of calculating handicap a persons average was their true average UNLESS that average was 10 pins or more below their book average. In this case the book average - 10 was used. This was a summer league and the house put up a lot of money towards the first place prize. Most of the "better" bowlers around the area walked out during the league meeting the first week after I explained the average rules (aparently they didn't read the forms around the bowling alley). In total, I want to say nearly half of the teams dropped out of the league before ever throwing a ball.

I think that shows you proof of sandbagging right there

--------------------
Mike

ericfox4 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 29, 2010, 08:41:14 AM »

there are alot but nothing you can do about it i have struggled mightily this year and am off 20 pins from last year but i have been trying to right the ship all year finnally starting to get going but you can telll when people throw off on spares it's not worth it if you ask me

Norm3v · « **Reply #26 on:** November 29, 2010, 09:16:18 AM »

A very large league around here does 5 pin maximum pin drop throughout the season. Your average for the start of the next season can only drop 10 pins. I believe the league is at least 30 to 40 teams, so it is very successful.

trash heap · « **Reply #27 on:** November 29, 2010, 09:18:01 AM »

A lot of whiners in this post! Just because a low average team has a career night doesn't make them sandbaggers! Its part of today's game. THS has made it possible for anyone to score. You better learn to accept this or you will probably quit the game out of frustration.

Today's true sandbagger isn't in it for the league championship. Maybe if its a big money league, but the problem with an individual or team bagging in a league is that person or team has the entire league looking over their shoulder for the whole season. Score sheets can be viewed, notes can be taken, there is just too many eyes watching.

Today's sandbagger is after the bigger fish. The tournament. Where cashing is made easy because your average is always based on your league average. The true bagger comes out when there is a lot of money to be gained.

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 29, 2010, 03:12:56 PM »

You are only as good as your last games...

Sometimes you get lucky for a while until the your center tries something new.. If you are constantly avg 210 or greater you need to apply for a pba because its hard to avg high on all condition..
--------------------
2 Fingers 4 Life
I Am The 3 Fingers Nightmare

Bigmike · « **Reply #29 on:** November 30, 2010, 11:34:33 AM »

There are a few guys around here who practice "creative average management" in a couple of the better handicap leagues in my end of town. I used to bowl a Friday night league with guys that I grew up with. I had more time to put into bowling when we got older as they all started families at young ages, so I naturally passed them in average. Still we are all friends and I like hanging with them once a week. I stopped in to see them as I moved on after 12 years and this league had changed dramatically. They had 40-50 handicap brackets. My last year we could barely get 4-5 scratch and virtually no "cap" brackets. My best buddy who is not a bad player and can average as high as 215 when he puts a little bit of time into it, told me that if he gets knocked out of the brackets by game two then he throws as low as possible in game three. I jokingly called him a 'bagger and he told me he is far from the only one in the league who does this. He pointed out a young guy, who I always thought was an up and comer in the 215-225 range, and showed me his 185 average on the sheet.

I asked him why anyone would do this as it is uncool to not give some effort. He showed me the 100% of 230 handicap base and it rang clear to me why they all do it. Too much jack to take home a couple of nights a month if you practice this "creative average management" technique.

I had the perfect "out" a few years ago to do this after a major surgery because my average dropped about 15-20 pins. My pride got in the way and I worked to get it back up to where it was before the surgery.
--------------------
"Why don't you call me sometime.....when you have no class" ~~Rodney Dangerfield to Sally Kellerman, his college professor in Back to School ~~1986

Mike Craig - Storm Products Pro Shop staff -Columbus, OH

Author Topic: Sand bagging (Read 5116 times)

BigHorhn

Sand bagging

mab

Re: Sand bagging

ccrider

Re: Sand bagging

Centers

Re: Sand bagging

vilecanards

Re: Sand bagging

txbowler

Re: Sand bagging

kidlost2000

Re: Sand bagging

CPA

Re: Sand bagging

txbowler

Re: Sand bagging

98custom

Re: Sand bagging

ericfox4

Re: Sand bagging

Norm3v

Re: Sand bagging

trash heap

Re: Sand bagging

Zanatos1914

Re: Sand bagging

Bigmike

Re: Sand bagging