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Author Topic: Help: Over Under  (Read 2313 times)

janderson

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Help: Over Under
« on: October 09, 2004, 03:23:01 AM »
Please share your experience with me (and everyone else).  What is the most over/under ball you've ever thrown?  I've recently found myself needing a ball that on typical/average conditions would be over/under and I'm out of my element)I typically avoid such equipment like the plague, giving or trading it away).

Help!
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janderson

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2004, 11:15:05 AM »
ttt
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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2004, 11:16:32 AM »
Green gargoyle is very over under on some conditions, but very good on others. Its a pin over ring drilling though, so that helps with that to lol.
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janderson

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2004, 04:48:25 PM »
Thanks for the info on the green gargoyle.

You're right - layout definitely has an effect on over/under, but it also seems
like certain cover-core combinations are more likely to be over/under than others.
I'm looking for a cover-core starting point that other people have found
over/under on "typical" conditions, say, a typical house shot, an x-mas
tree pattern, or a crown.
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smitty8288

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2004, 09:40:13 PM »
my hot rod is like that pending on how i have to throw it. if i have to crank it. extremely over/under reaction. every now and then when im throwing in my comfort zone, it wont come back but that is about all. drilled pin over and a little to the right of ring. cg almost directly below(a little to the left) in my palm.
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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2004, 10:03:57 PM »
Can I ask WHY you need an over/under ball, anyways?
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And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
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thfonz98

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2004, 10:38:17 PM »
label leverage stuff gives me bad over/under...these balls i hate to use would be: ebo illusion, ebo tornado, ebo dominator.
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janderson

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2004, 02:41:05 PM »
Smitty - thanks for the feedback, I'll take a look.
thfonz - same here, which is why I've avoided label laverage (until now?)

quote:
Can I ask WHY you need an over/under ball, anyways?


Sure - good question.  Very good question actually since you mostly see people trying to avoid it.

The quick and simple answer: lane conditions.

In two of my league houses this season we've faced some pretty challenging conditions - conditions where a 1-board miss left or right at the arrows (assuming an otherwise good shot) has translated to a 3- or 4-board miss left or right (accordingly) at the pins.

For any newer bowlers that may read this and if I'm not explaining things too well, it basically works out this way.  I'm right-handed.  On these "troublesome" conditions if I miss my mark to the right by 1 board but otherwise throw a good shot (consistent speed, revolutions, delivery, etc) instead of the ball being a little (1-board) right in the pocket, it is very light in the pocket, barely making contact with the head-pin.  If I miss my mark to the left by 1 board, but otherwise throw a good shot, instead of the ball being a little (1-board) left/high in the pocket, it is through the nose.

Ok, now you experienced bowlers out there might be saying: sounds like a very good, tough flat shot or sport pattern.  That was my first reaction as well.  However, watching some other bowlers, I saw some "spray and pray" bowlers that had area and a more consistent reaction - not the type of bowler that would typically score well on a sport pattern or flat shot.

I tried different combinations of lines (3 board all the way to 30 board), speeds, revs, and release changes to find a better reaction.  Only a release change - increasing axis rotation closer to 90 degrees - seemed to help, and only a little.  However, one thing all my experiments had in common: my equipment.  Almost all of my equipment is either "control" equipment or has a control layout.

So I started thinking, on a "typical" condition, an over/under ball holds (skids) too much when you miss a board left and ends up more than one board right at the pins and hooks too much when you miss a board right and ends up more through the nose.  What would happen if we took one of those balls and applied it to the above troublesome conditions?

Well, I dusted off the one over/under ball in my arsenal that I had not given or traded away and took it with me.  For the first game, I threw a control piece of equipment to get a feel for the conditions and make sure they were basically the same as they had been.  For the 2nd game, I broke out the over/under ball.  Bam!  Area - 3 boards.

So to complete my experiment and truly learn from the experience, I'd like to try a ball that is even more over/under than the one I have and see what happens with it.


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Leftyhi-trak

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2004, 03:52:27 PM »
Thanks for a well informed topic which states pertinent data. Looking for or asking about over/under balls is open to a lot of broad/brush statements by people. Strength of covers would be where i started first (pearls,solid reatcices, Pearl Particles, etc.) and then break balls down by differential and RG. Also looking at drill patterns which make the transition in the right part of the lane might better help you. A few questions would be are you a high-tracker? What is your normal axis rotation and what grit-level is the equipment you utilize?  

P.S. - A profile is nice to get backround information about someone. Hint, Hint.
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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2004, 03:57:16 PM »
what it seems like TO ME, is not that you need an over/under ball, but a strong skid/flip ball.
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And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
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janderson

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2004, 04:59:54 PM »
quote:
P.S. - A profile is nice to get backround information about someone. Hint, Hint.


Except for the grit info, all that is already in my profile.  As far as grit goes, my stuff runs the gamut.  What I have tried on these particular conditions ranges from 600 to 2000.

BK25 - Skid/Flip stuff does seem to generally be more prone to over-under, but isn't automatically.  So I'm around to my question again, what equipment has been over/under for you?
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2004, 05:45:15 PM »
Hey since I moved I have had over under all year on a long (40 foot)but lightly oiled shot on rock hard Brunswick Anvilanes.

I finally feel it is solved with a Vortex II pearl.  The low rg seems to have a lot to do with the solution.

When playing the oil line with higher rg struff(hot rod, Hot wire) and anything with more normal rgs I was always over under.  

Recently have seen nice results on this 40 foot shot regardless of oil volume with all very ow rg stuff.  REaction Roll, Vortex 2 pearl if playing in the oil or along the oil line, even a Core Power LRG and an old tour boss pearl have been great!

Also back a little bit I could tear it up with a Sonic boom put down outside in the dirt.

In general the high rg stuff is not effective anywhere near the oil line giving lots of over under!

REgards,

Luckylefty
COuld rg be the key to curing over under?
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janderson

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2004, 06:08:32 PM »
LL and BK25

So maybe it is time to take a medium Rg high diff reactive pearl and drill it to flip?
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2004, 06:17:05 PM »
I must have written a really confusing post.

I said I believed I had solved my problem by switching from many balls in the 2.52 to 2.58 rg range into balls in the 2.46 to 2.50 rg range.

Striking up a patch!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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janderson

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Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2004, 06:21:18 PM »
LL - not confusing, I agree with your post 100% and generally prefer low-rg stuff because it reduces over/under.  However (in the original post) that's the problem.  I only have one piece of equipment that consistently produces over/under on typical patterns (and it is borderline over/under) and would like to find another even more over/under.
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