Author Topic: How do I match up? (Read 1365 times)

Jay · « **on:** August 29, 2008, 05:51:46 PM »

Hello all, I posted something like this in another thread or two but figured I could get some help if I made a thread dedicated to it.

For me, it seems that lower RG balls tend to work for me. My LM Counter Strike is probably the one ball I currently throw that matches up with me the worse, and I believe it has an RG of 2.59. I haven't noticed a particular type of differential that works best for me but the RG seems important.

I'm not sure if it's the characteristics of the ball in combination with my style that doesn't match up, or if I could have put a better layout on the ball. I use dual angle to lay out my equipment these days. I've done it on my Counter Strike and Avalanche Solid with less success from the CS. Sometimes it goes too long or hooks too early(but has its uses on certain shots), but my Avalanche when used on light/dry conditions gives me a really good reaction from what little use I've put into so far. I have yet to try it on a broken down sport shot. The CS is drilled 60 x 4 1/2 x 40 and the AS is drilled 70 x 2 x 50. My Rival wasn't drilled using that technique but a rough estimate comes out to something along the lines of 50 x 4 1/4 x 60 and I could use it on the same condition as my CS but with better success. I also have had success with a Whirl Wind that was drilled approximately 60 x 3 1/2 x 70+.

My specs are in my profile, but to me it seems like I generally match up better with pin distances no bigger than 4 1/2" except possibly on a ball for dry heads and carrydown. Either that, or I've got a feeling I'm not fully understanding the angle to the VAL, but the way I look at it is the smaller angles create more defined move off the breakpoint and bigger angles create smoother breakpoints. Assuming such, it seems that bigger drilling angles are the way to go for me(60+), but if that was the case I can't figure out why my Rival works pretty well.

If anyone could share their thoughts as to a pattern they might see about what matches up well for me, I'd really appreciate the help. The reason I ask is because I want to reduce my chances of getting anymore balls that don't roll very well for me, and I'm convinced the major reason for it is layout.
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The Arsenal:

Rival
Counter Strike
Avalanche Solid
Maxim

John D Davis · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2008, 03:18:11 AM »

Hey Strike, my impression on the Counter Strike was the same as yours... I cant explain why simply because I have other balls with the RG just as high as the CS. No matter what surface I tried on it, it didnt read the lane worth a crap. Sometimes it would read the mids and then sometimes it would just go right through the breakpoint. I had a couple Rebellions that acted the same way. But other than that my current LM arsenal is great. They match up so well for me and we have similiar styles. I think you should give LM another chance. Look at some of my reviews for the balls, and let that maybe help you chose the next choice for you. Something I see you maybe missing is a very strong bowling ball to fit above the Rival.

The Black Pearl maybe one of the best top 10-15 balls made for years to come. I wish I could find a little more oil so I could bring it out more often. Right now they are two balls in my current arsenal that read the lane like a dream on just about all conditions, and they are the XS Power and the Big Bang... I dont like to do anything fancy with the ball, especially if I am on something tough and the hit/carry of these balls are amazing! Before I went to LM's I was throwing MoRich balls and I thought they carried very well. To my surprise I think I even carry more half pocket hits with LM balls vs the MoRich ones. The have a much better downlane reaction giving me more power at the pins.

The only differnce in maybe our styles are I am a little higher tracker than you, and my PAP is 3 1/2over and 5/8 up. PM me sometime and let me know your span,etc. I may can fix you something up that will be much better than the CS. Hope I helped. John Davis

JohnP · « **Reply #2 on:** August 30, 2008, 11:37:50 AM »

quote:
The only differnce in maybe our styles are I am a little higher tracker than you, and my PAP is 3 1/2over and 5/8 up. PM me sometime and let me know your span,etc. I may can fix you something up that will be much better than the CS. Hope I helped. John Davis

If you didn't make a typo Strike tracks higher than you do (4 11/16 over x 3/8 up, per his profile). -- JohnP

Jay · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2008, 07:02:11 PM »

That is indeed my correct PAP, me and my pro shop just measured it recently.

Jay · « **Reply #4 on:** August 31, 2008, 09:37:01 PM »

No one with experience could tell me at least if it's layouts or bad balls for my game that are my problem sometimes? I'd like to think it's layouts, in which case I'd like some opinions on what dual layouts seem to work for me.

agroves · « **Reply #5 on:** September 03, 2008, 03:46:45 AM »

Sometimes we just don't match up with certain bowling balls. I was given a Counter Strike to try. On a shortish pattern, it was pretty decent. But, put any volume out there and it was a spare ball. I sanded it down, polished it and it just was very, very condition specific.

We learn what works for us through trial and error. You'll see alot of pros that use basically the same pin to pap distance on every ball. They move the pin above or below the fingers and rely on the differences in each cover/core combo to create a various motions on the lanes. Of course, those guys are very good and carrying well means the difference in a big paycheck and a little one.
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--Andrew

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #6 on:** September 03, 2008, 04:15:13 AM »

I found out that I have to watch out when a core has a RG of less than 2.5", and drilling anything stronger than 4" from PAP does not work well.

I think it is due to my lower speed and average revs - low RG cores tend to bleed energy easily for me, and a really strong pin position makes the ball simply break too early. Pin above the fingers seems to be more effective for the same reason.

I also have trouble with very high RG cores - it might be the other side of the medal, because these cores push too well down the lane and I have a hard time making such a ball finish well, unless it is a ball for very short oil and almost dry lanes.

I also found that a proper surface prep, even slight changes, can do a lot for a ball's effectivity. If you have an orb that does not run well, make surface experiments. Chances are IMHO huge that you will find something that fits the ball better to your style and needs, it just might take some time and several approaches.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

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Jay · « **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2008, 01:24:27 AM »

quote:
Sometimes we just don't match up with certain bowling balls. I was given a Counter Strike to try. On a shortish pattern, it was pretty decent. But, put any volume out there and it was a spare ball. I sanded it down, polished it and it just was very, very condition specific.

I guess it must be the Counter Strike, because I haven't heard anything spectacular about it yet, and I'm the only one I know that has one around here. To be fair, it does have its moments. For me some short patterns are favorable with it or medium length with medium-ish volume tends to be good too. But what annoys me is my Rival works just as good or better and the same conditions and then some. So it almost doesn't have a purpose except for using it to preserve the life of my other balls lol. But, I haven't tried other surfaces either, so that's worth a try.

quote:
We learn what works for us through trial and error. You'll see alot of pros that use basically the same pin to pap distance on every ball. They move the pin above or below the fingers and rely on the differences in each cover/core combo to create a various motions on the lanes. Of course, those guys are very good and carrying well means the difference in a big paycheck and a little one.

I didn't know that about the pros. As far as I'm concerned, it seems that I could pick a pin distance between 2" and 4" and I have a pretty good chance of making the ball work. I haven't had a single asymmetrical ball work too well for me, not like some of the symmetricals have. Going by the dual angle system choosing the pin distance seems a bit more tricky for them.

Dizzy: You and I have somewhat similar styles. The biggest difference seems to be your amount of tilt. However, I seem to like lower RG balls just fine, and I won't say anything about high RG balls because the only one I've had is the Counter Strike and that doesn't seem to be a popular ball as it is. Have you ever tried anything less than 3" from your PAP? I believe the type of ball makes a difference but in general less than 2.75" isn't that strong, but on symmetrics produces earlier roll. You say you prefer length but I think as long as you aren't the large flare range you'll be fine.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2008, 07:12:46 AM »

No, never tried a pin axis drilling so far (or something close to it), because I never felt the necessity for this reaction type - and I was and am afraid that it might roll out too early. So far I went rather with high pins and greater pin distances, because creating enough length is my "problem". But it might be worth a try, since I generate more revolutions now and have a cleaner release. Thank you for the suggestion!

--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

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Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
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janderson · « **Reply #9 on:** September 04, 2008, 10:58:55 AM »

Pin-on-Pap (aka Pin-on-Axis) equipment or close to that will tend to roll earlier, but it isn't quite that simple.

Pin-Axis balls roll "earlier" because we're using the lowest Rg of the ball. If the ball's minimum Rg is 2.6 and the layout is pin-on-pap, the core's effective Rg is still higher (and will promote more length) than a ball with a maximum Rg of 2.55 with a layout drilled with a 6 inch pin or beyond, such as pin-on-track.

Flare and lane conditions must also be taken into account. Assume we have two balls of the same make and model but with two different layouts: one pin-on-pap, the other with a 5-inch pin-to-pap. On a longer, flatter pattern, the pin-on-pap will actually go longer because it will flare very little if at all. The 5-inch pip-to-pap will flare and be able to create more friction while still in the oil. When both balls roll off the back of the pattern, the pin-on-pap ball still has oil on the part of the ball in contact with the lane. It won't hook much until that oil rolls off the ball onto the lane, making it go even farther down the lane before it hooks. The 5-inch pin-to-pap will roll off the back of the pattern and present a fresh portion of the ball to the lane surface and be ready to hook.

On shorter patterns, the situation is generally reversed. The pin-on-pap ball will tend to hook sooner and want to roll out. We've got the low Rg working against us (length-wise) now because as it traverses the drier surface of the lane, the same portion of the ball touching the lane heats up more and creates more friction on the longer, drier part of the lane.

Personally, I've had much success with pin-on-pap (or very close) equipment on sport conditions, adjusting cover as needed for length (or lack thereof) to match the pattern.

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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King : Kill the back row

Edited on 9/4/2008 10:59 AM

Author Topic: How do I match up? (Read 1365 times)

Jay

How do I match up?

John D Davis

Re: How do I match up?

JohnP

Re: How do I match up?

Jay

Re: How do I match up?

Jay

Re: How do I match up?

agroves

Re: How do I match up?

dizzyfugu

Re: How do I match up?

Jay

Re: How do I match up?

dizzyfugu

Re: How do I match up?

janderson

Re: How do I match up?